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2018-01-07.log
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<nekroze>hello, I am taking the weekend to try switching to guixsd, so far it has been great. Just having some trouble using enlightnment wm as the locker it uses is not accepting my password so I get locked out. From the docs I thought I would need to define (screen-locker-service enlightenment) but that does not solve the problem, what have I missed? <nekroze>does guixsd have something like https://nixos.org/nixos/options.html where I can search for defined serivces? so far I have been using the docs and trying to guess what category of services the service I am looking for might be but this fails me often <Apteryx>nekroze: have you tried searching in the info manual of guix using C-s? <nekroze>no, I thought that info manual was only in the install disk, how can I bring it up post install? <nekroze>Apteryx: nvm, I guessed it $ info guix <Apteryx>or, from inside Emacs: C-h i m guix ENT <nekroze>anyone here running enlightenment wm with guixsd? <nekroze>I will try i3 then, enlightenment does not seem ready on guixsd. thanks all <emsyr>nekroze: I'm trying to set up a desktop environment. I haven't tried enlightenment yet. As you see above I'm working on xorg-server. <buenouanq>guix pull on my BBB has been running for more than 20 hours and is only at 75.8% <buenouanq>top and ps show guix and guile chugging away, but I get worried when the number hasn't changed in a long time <efraim>it appearse kuiserver is part of kde-runtime, which I don't think we have packaged yet <efraim>no, it looks like it should be plasma-workspace <amz3>sneek is down for some time <amz3>I prepared my trip to fosdem <shiranaihito>so if i did "guix pull" every day.. how long should i expect each call to take? <shiranaihito>i think i did one yesterday, and now it's taken a loong time again <amz3>it always take "a long time" <shiranaihito>amz3 why? i mean.. almost nothing should have changed, right? <amz3>shiranaihito: guix pull doesn't download all the changes since last time, but what takes time is the compilation process i think <amz3>and compilation process recompiles everything <shiranaihito>amz3 huh? it recompiles everything even if nothing has changed? <amz3>shiranaihito: if nothing have changed, i don't know what happens <shiranaihito>but let's say "one thing" has changed.. why would that result in everything getting recompiled? besides.. why is it compiling anything anyway instead of using "substitutes" (binaries?)? <amz3>shiranaihito: it's the "package index" that is recompiled <amz3>I mean the package recipes are compilled <amz3>no, the actual recipes are compiled <amz3>to avoid to compile them later <amz3>recipe = a package definition <shiranaihito>and why/how does a package definition need re-compiling? <amz3>I am not sure what is the algorithm taken, my guess is that the procedure that compiles package definition doesn't know which package changed and which did not <amz3>so it compiles everything all the time <amz3>package defintions are guile modules, guile modules need to be compiled before using them <amz3>like I said, I don't know the exact algorithm that is used for the compilation process during guix pull <shiranaihito>so something like.. we don't know why the package definitions aren't hashed just like everything(?) else, so that changes to them could be detected and needless compilation avoided? :P <amz3>I look for the guix pull code and see what happens <mbakke>Currently, it will build all of Guix every time. <shiranaihito>mbakke but at least something is being done about it, which is nice :) <mbakke>shiranaihito: There is a "wip-guix-pull" branch if you would like to get your hands dirty :) <shiranaihito>i wish Guix used Clojure's syntax for everything though.. after you're used to Clojure, other Lisps tend to start looking kind of clunky <shiranaihito>for example square brackets are used for "vector" (~sequence) literals <civodul>ok but what do you have in mind specifically? :-) <shiranaihito>it makes everything clearer right off the bat, but i'm sure there's other stuff i just can't think of now <civodul>we don't use vectors much though ;-) <shiranaihito>well, the general idea is just to be able to introduce a sequence literal :) <catonano>shiranaihito: I love Clojure, I came to Guix through clojure. But I'd be wary of messing with Scheme syntax. I'd rather attempt to port Cloure on Guile ;-) <catonano>I'd like to try with calling (vector... every time. Sooner or later I'll write some signifficant amount of Guile code <catonano>In my dreams, Clojure on Guile couuld call Guile schheme code the same way as Clojure on the vm can call Java code <shiranaihito>catonano i've sometimes thought of cobbling together some kind of macro that would let me write Guix stuff in a little bit more Clojurey way :) <shiranaihito>but it's a big hurdle to cross to do any kind of Guix development - so much to learn, and i'm just trying to be an end-user <shiranaihito>and yeah.. it would be even nicer if Guile became a "target" for Clojure :) <catonano>shiranaihito: guix is a thing per se. Usually it requires system stuff related kknowledge to a great extent <catonano>As far as I understand, there's a license incompatibility between the Cloure license and the Gpl, so I think someone on the GNU side should work for porting Clojure on top of Guile <catonano>shiranaihito: weel I strggle with systems too <catonano>it takes me an awful lot of time to do simple things <catonano>currently I'm using a virtual machine to test my Tryton service. Yesterday it ended up containing the previous version of Tryton :-/ <catonano>I gc'd and make distcleaned, renovated all I could renovate <catonano>ifnally I could have a new virtual machine containing the righht version of Tryton <catonano>that's jjuust an example of naive errors I do <catonano>Now Trytond attempts to connect to the wrong db, rather than postgres. This usually happens when the conf file can't be read. So I have to manually launch it in the virtual machine to see exactly what's the problem. It could also be that the python-postgres library should be propagated (propagated-inputs) <catonano>for now I'm hhaving my post lunch nap :-) <shiranaihito>what might this mean: "error: extraneous field initializers (https-port)"? i've got "(https-port 443)" in a "nginx-server-configuration" <shiranaihito>well, i removed "(https-port 443)" from my config and guix started doing its thing <shiranaihito>it would be nice if a group could be configured for the "nginx" user in the service definition or something <shiranaihito>then you could give it access to a directory through the user group, etc <amz3>what is the [m] string people use in their username, what does it mean? <mbakke>amz3: IRC bridges for matrix.org servers add a [m] suffix to the Matrix username. <shiranaihito>apparently "monit" is also distributed as a binary - where would i put it in GuixSD? <shiranaihito>(so like, is there a convention for handling distasteful binary blobs that just need to be somewhere despite being distasteful? :P) <az`>anybody use qemu-kvm in guixsd? <emsyr>az: in guixsd or for guixsd? <az`>@emsyr: qemu-kvm running under guixsd <amz3>what is the actual question? <amz3>asking who use a particular software, is not a constructive question usually <amz3>except if you do a survey <adfeno>Hi #guix! How do we download only a graft and inspect or change its contents? <mbakke>I think the problem with elogind 234 is that it may get started by D-Bus before Shepherd gets the chance. <civodul>adfeno: see the 'replacement' field of the package of interest <ng0>sneek, come back. hrmph. so what are the remaining problems with Enlightenment? I'd prefer if people would open bugs and not just rant and leave. <adfeno>ng0: +1 feel the same also for Trisquel ;) <adfeno>ng0: Don't worry, my last message was just a random note, not being picky on anyone. <ng0>Oh.. yeah. Would people prefer it if I filed bug(s) for what's still left to do in Mate? <ng0>I'll be looking into nightly kernels etc, but that'S beyond what we could offer in Guix upstream, and also how to address this.. I'm sure it's not just 2 people here in Guix who are affected by this. I simply thought my hw was broken and did not report it. <ng0>seems upstream'ish to me.. but idk <ng0>people could assume it's our fault <ng0>actually, it *is* upstream. but, how do we deal with such bugs? <adfeno>ng0: Could you summarize what is the status of all this glitches, is there a plan from upstream to fix these, a solution or work around from them? Or neither we nor upstream has solutions or workarounds? <ng0>idk, trying to figure out in the next weeks. <happy_gnu[m]>I remember reading something like that but I am not sure if it was guix or pacman <amz3>hey you can make a patch <amz3>are you sure generic driver isn't good enough? <adfeno>civodul: Thank you very much for the information about how to get the grafts ;) <amz3>happy_gnu[m]: forget about it, it's not completly free <ng0>this java thread is getting to worrying lengths for my inbox view of mail :D <ng0>is it still about the subject? <ng0>switch to java-8 per default <amz3>looks like texlive is out of the build farm :( <amz3>I have to download all the thing, it's not compiling <efraim>does anyone have a plasma-workspace package definition? apparently I need the kuiserver binary from it :/ <efraim>Oh good telnet is in the base system, I would have nothing to do while waiting for compiling to happen <efraim>On my Mac I have to drop to TTY when compiling or it freezes up <rekado>efraim: telnet nyancat.dakko.us ? <manumanumanu>Does guix configure how to load libraries? guile (from guix) doesn't seem to honour /etc/ld.so.conf (nor does guile by default try to load libraries from my ~/.guix-profile/lib <alezost>manumanumanu: if you try to compile something, make sure you install "gcc-toolchain" package (not "gcc") <alezost>manumanumanu: actually, I don't know what you are asking about :-) <str1ngs>based on what he said I think you gave the right answer <manumanumanu>alezost: I am trying to dynamicly load a library in guile, but it doesn't work <civodul>manumanumanu: Guix' libc doesn't honor ld.so.conf, indeed <civodul>so you'll have to set LD_LIBRARY_PATH or similar for 'dynamic-link' to find your lib <manumanumanu>civodul: oh, but not globally since that makes some programmes sad :) <manumanumanu>vim core dumped since it tried to load something from guix instead of the regular place <str1ngs>setting LD_LIBRARY_PATH on foreign distro will probably break things <civodul>marusich: i haven't investigated yet! <manumanumanu>str1ngs: I probably should be. Currently I am on ubuntu and it really breaks things :) <civodul>marusich: so any findings you may have is welcome ;-) <str1ngs>manumanumanu: maybe set use setenv in your scheme script for now <str1ngs>dunno if that will work, but it might help if it does <manumanumanu>str1ngs: you are clearly smarter than me. That is probably the simplest solution <marusich>civodul, in general, if one wants to port Guix to a new platform, is it necessary to build the bootstrap binaries? Can one cross-build guix itself without cross-building bootstrap-tarballs, or is cross-building bootstrap-tarballs a necessary part of cross-building guix? <str1ngs>manumanumanu: alternatively you could do LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/path/to guile script.scm <str1ngs>manumanumanu: that might cause uses with guile though <manumanumanu>I just don't understand why it doesn't look for libsodium in my .guix-profile/lib <str1ngs>gcc-toolchain generally handles that . but dynamic-link is sort special <str1ngs>dynamic-link IIRC searches known paths for .so files <str1ngs>I've only used it couple times myself. was kinda fun though :) <manumanumanu>str1ngs: yeah. it uses libffi iirc, and is quite nice to work with, although A bit low-level <manumanumanu>hmmm. I could probably get things done in guixSD. I only even need emacs, weechat and a web browser <marusich>civodul, the reason I ask is because I was hoping to maybe port Guix to another platform, and I ran into an issue similar to https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=24841 when cross-building the bootstrap-tarballs. I didn't know of any other way to port Guix to a new platform (since I've never done it before), which is why I updated the bug to see if anyone knew what the problem might be. However, if there is another way to port Guix <marusich>without cross-building the bootstrap-tarballs, then I would be un-blocked. So I'm wondering if maybe there's another way to port Guix without cross-building the bootstrap-tarballs. But I think the answer is "you must cross-build bootstrap-tarballs at some point first"? <str1ngs>generally bootstrapping requires cross compilation, even if you are targeting the same architecture <marusich>Could one conceivably build Guix from source using system software not deployed via Guix? <marusich>For example, if you have a system on a new platform that runs some linux distro, and you use that distro to build Guix from source. <marusich>Would doing that also build the bootstrap binaries at the same time? <marusich>I thought that part of the Makefile logic for Guix involved downloading pre-built bootstrap binaries; is that not true? <str1ngs>no it would not build the bootstrap binaries <str1ngs>building guix is not the sames as using guix build and the store <marusich>Right, but if bootstrap binaries don't exist for the new system platform, would you even be able to run "make" successfully? <str1ngs>yes, provided gcc/guile supported that platform <str1ngs>for example I have built guix for power8 . there are no power8 package bootstrap binaries <marusich>Are you saying that running "make" would build Guix, but you wouldn't then be able to use that Guix to build anything because it lacks bootstrap binaries? <str1ngs>pretty much, but you could then bootstrap from there <marusich>My understanding was that invoking "make" in Guix's source tree downloaded pre-built bootstrap binaries as part of its build process. <marusich>I have read that section multiple times. <marusich>Does it not say that the bootstrap binanries are included in the source distribution? <marusich>"This gets stored in the guile-2.0.7.tar.xz tarball shown in this graph. This tarball is part of Guix’s “source” distribution, and gets inserted into the store with add-to-store (see The Store)." <marusich>So, if someone hasn't included bootstrap binaries for architecture foo, then when I go and try to build Guix from source on architecture foo using a generic GNU/Linux distribution, won't it be impossible to successfully build Guix on that system (since it lacks bootstrap binaries for the foo architecture)? <marusich>Are you just saying that I should build the bootstrap binaries on the foo architecture, and then add them to the Guix source, and then build Guix? That would make more sense to me. <str1ngs>I think guix build bootstrap-tarballs handles that <marusich>In this hypothetical situation, Guix isn't installed yet, so we can't build with it. <str1ngs>I'm not familiar with guix autotools config in regards to the bootstrap binaries <str1ngs>I think --with-courage could work around unsupported archs <marusich>I'm going to go grab some coffee for a while, but if anyone has any ideas, I'm all ears. <str1ngs>marusich: I'm reading it's allot of text <str1ngs>marusich: I don't have enough experience bootstrapping, I'd wait for other that understand the process to comment on your bug report <efraim>marusich: when I was working on bootstrapping aarch64 i was working mostly from core-updates <efraim>the short answer is that you have to be able to build the bootstrap binaries, and then you can use those to bootstrap a new architecture <str1ngs>marusich: also, you might be right about needing bootstrap binaries. I thought I built guix on power8 . I was mistaken <str1ngs>marusich: I'm still testing on power8 if guix build without bootstrap binaries. just going to take get build prereqs <str1ngs>I don't have root access on this machine. so best can do is build guix <str1ngs>it does 150 cores which is interesting <vagrantc>and enough ram to make use of them all simultaneously? <efraim>is it powerpc-linux-gnu for mac powerpc and for power8+? <str1ngs>it's not 160 logic cores though. it has some sorta hyper threading tech <linuxuser>Hello, I cannot log into gnome if there are supplementary groups declared in my config, anyone knows what could be causing this? <linuxuser>I get to the login screen and after entering my password it says logging in and crashes after some time <str1ngs>can you login with VT? like Ctrl+Alt+F2 <str1ngs>so if you only have wheel you can login? <linuxuser>I'll check whether xfce has the same problem <linuxuser>I can only log in if I don't specify supplementary groups <linuxuser>Yes, it just started, I reinstalled guixsd but still the same <linuxuser>Ill skim through the commits if there have been any changes with users <linuxuser>Is it a problem if I replace users with wheel? <str1ngs>if your using users now I would keep it that way, till you get this resolved <str1ngs>linuxuser: what does $ groups output? <linuxuser>So on the config with which I can't log in (with supplementary groups audio wheel) it returns users audio wheel <str1ngs>I would have atleast wheel netdev audio video <linuxuser>Why can I login without any supplementary groups though? <str1ngs>It probably defaults to certain groups. I'd have to check <linuxuser>Maybe there were some file permission errors <str1ngs>linuxuser: did you run any X programs as root? <linuxuser>Do you know where a failure like this would be logged? <str1ngs>maybe in ~/.xsession-errors or ~/.local/share/xorg/ <str1ngs>not familiar enough with how guix logs xsessions <str1ngs>linuxuser: if it happens again do find $HOME -u root <str1ngs>that will list and files owned by root <str1ngs>generally running an X program with sudo can cause a $HOME permissions issues