IRC channel logs

<guixquestion>is there a graphical installer for guixsd?

<guixquestion>or has the project been discontinued?

<Apteryx>I think the one working on it stopped hacking on Guix, so the branch is probably in limbo.

<reirob>I'm about to prepare a new laptop for the next years of work and want to use guix on a foreign distribution as much as possible

<reirob>So, I installed latest Ubuntu LTS and installed guix and followed the installation steps. Everything worked as described

<reirob>Now the first program that I absolutely need is Emacs with at least Evil + Org-Mode

<reirob>So I installed emacs with 'guix package -i emacs'

<reirob>It starts, though the graphics are really bad and there are a lot of error messages related to some missing gtk themes and such

<reirob>By graphics I mean, the UI is really ugly - the menu seems to not have spaces between the horizontal entries, e.g. it looks like "FileEditOptionBuffers" etc.

<reirob>But this is not the biggest issue.

<reirob>I was happy when I have seen emacs running already

<reirob>So I continued to install evil for emacs with: guix package -i emacs-evil

<reirob>The installation worked, but when I start emacs, I cannot activate the evil mode?!

<reirob>What do I have to do?

<reirob>The best would be if I could have some configuration for my customized emacs installation, so that if I move to another machine, I could have the same emacs again

<reirob>Any idea?

<janneke>reirob: you may be seeing several problems, first let's look at fonts

<janneke>did you intall fonts in guix and did you follow the font setup steps?

<reirob>I am new to guix - well I tried several time guixsd some time ago on a test machine and in VMs, but now I have to get a new production machine running with least possible problems

<reirob>@janneke: no I didn't install fonts

<rekado_>reirob: have you checked the manual section “Application setup”?

<reirob>Yes, I have looked at this section and I the stuff needed with locales and nscd

<reirob>but not the fonts

<reirob>so should I install fonts? Which packages are these?

<reirob>I need the fonts to work with cyrillic, german, french, english, portuguese

<reirob>but don't know the asian languages

<reirob>So should I run:

<janneke>it depends, the section X11 Fonts lists some suggestions, but you may look at

<janneke>guix package -A font

<reirob>Well, this is 83 packages :-O

<reirob>what would be the safe/nothing fancy font packages?

<janneke>the X11 Fonts section lists the essential fonts

<reirob>I don't need tex - just emacs, yes if possible with scaling and unicode

<reirob>ok

<janneke>however, if your ~/.emacs uses other fonts, you may find them amongst those 83

<reirob>gs-fonts, font-dejavu, and font-gnu-freefont-ttf.

<reirob>Installing these

<reirob>After the fonts are installed, how should I re-install/re-configure emacs to have it start with evil + org-mode. Or even better, is there maybe a spacemacs package? I didn't find it

<reirob>Font installation finished. Starting emacs still gives me a lot of Gtk-Message and WARNING. Here are some

<reirob>Gtk-Message: Failed to load module "unity-gtk-module"

<reirob>Gtk-WARNING **: Theme parsing error: gtk-widgets-borders.css:31:18: The :insensitive pseudo-class is deprecated. Use :disabled instead.

<efraim>i have font-terminus and font-dejavu, but I currently don't have non-roman letters

<reirob>Gtk-Message: Failed to load module "canberra-gtk-module"

<reirob>GLib-GIO-Message: Using the 'memory' GSettings backend. Your settings will not be saved or shared with other applications.

<reirob>It seems, it is not at all a font problem

<reirob>But some gtk stuff

<reirob>I wouldn't mind, about this gtk warnings, much more important for me is to get emacs work with VI keys + org-mode

<reirob>And even though I installed emacs-evil, it is not enabled

<reirob>In spacemacs it was working out of the box

<reirob>and I am not an emacs person at all, but now I have 3 years of org files that I use for my work

<reirob>The other package that I need is stack from GHC, the Haskell compiler

<reirob>but it doesn't exist as well - will install the one shipped with Ubuntu

<reirob>I'm still eager to go the guix way, to make a slow transition over the next two years in the hope that until then GuixSD will be ready for my requirements

<janneke>reirob: i cannot imagine why a package would not work; you did require it in your .emacs?

<reirob>No, I didn't touch .emacs.

<reirob>there is no such file

<reirob>No such file or directory

<janneke>reirob: then try: M-x load-library evil RET

<reirob>It says "Loading evil...done"

<reirob>But the VI keys don't work yet

<reirob>I tried with ESC+:e and it behaves strange

<reirob>M-x evil-mode seems to activate evil-mode

<reirob>How could I make it to be started automatically when I start emacs

<reirob>Or even better: Is there a way to install spacemacs?

<reirob>Like this I wouldn't see the ugly GUI menus

<reirob>And Evil would work from the start and org-mode too

<reirob>but in any case thank you a lot janneke for the tip with load-library

<reirob>In the meantime I will try to install spacemacs, the way it is described on their web-site, but then use emacs from guix

<janneke>reirob: good luck

<reirob>Thank you janneke!

<reirob>Installed guix git. Which worked flawlessly

<reirob>But when running:

<reirob>git clone https://github.com/syl20bnr/spacemacs ~/.emacs.d

<reirob>I get:

<reirob>fatal: unable to access 'https://github.com/syl20bnr/spacemacs/': server certificate verification failed. CAfile: none CRLfile: none

<reirob>What is this?

<reirob>Well, I guess I have to set up certificates or stuff like this. Reading through: https://www.gnu.org/software/guix/manual/html_node/X_002e509-Certificates.html#X_002e509-Certificates

<reirob>I slowly get the impression, that using guix in a foreign distro has quite some learning curve. The stuff with the certificates should be handled as a dependency. Why is git installable without setting the ssl stuff?

<reirob>I mean, why do I have to install nss-certs manually?

<reirob>Well, installed nss-certs and set up the env variables. Git seems to work

<reirob>cloning spacemacs to ~/.emacs.d

<reirob>Cloning, finished. Started emacs and the spacemacs configuration wizard kicked in and guided me through the few settings ;-)

<reirob>It seems that I will be running guix emacs with spacemacs configuration :-)

<reirob>ACTION is happy :-)

<reirob>emacs is downloading all the spacemacs stuff now

<reirob>But what I wish in the long run, is having my custom guix-emacs configuration, so if I need to install a new machine, I can install my custom package which will have all the settings inside. This is what I will try to learn how to do, if guix on a foreign distro proves to be a viable day to day option

<reirob>Now a bit off-topic: I need a new backup solution. Was quite happy with obnam - until today, well yesterday

<reirob>I made a last backup from the old machine and thought this is a good moment to test if restore works

<cehteh>rsync ftw

<reirob>So I started obnam restore - and it takes 20 hours!? Is completely CPU bound, but it used only one thread

<reirob>And then by digging deeper, I learned today, that the author and main maintainer of obnam stopped development on obnam

<reirob>And advices people to find a new solution

<cehteh>i have a script driving rsync

<reirob>I need something: that uses strong encryption, saves space, has generations, so that if I make a backup that I can go back

<reirob>And is fast

<cehteh>^^

<reirob>obnam, was all of this except for performance

<reirob>before this I used duplicity - but it was even worse

<cehteh> http://git.pipapo.org/?p=rstore;a=blob;f=rstore

<cehteh>rather made for personal use, thus not well documented :D .. but that works pretty well since years here

<reirob>@cehteh - thank you. I like that it's just a script. But how do I encrypt it? In case my house is broken in and somebody steals the backup drive?

<cehteh>use disk encryption of your choice

<cehteh>dmcrypt or whatever

<cehteh>you want a backup server pulling backups from a lot machines?

<reirob>Yes, will have to look into it - but it's even more dependency if I need to quickly restore. I always have a gpg key

<reirob>for the moment being just one. And I don't want a server - just a big external disc

<cehteh>thats no real backup :D

<reirob>for me it is

<cehteh>well i have a sd card in my laptop all times and another script which backs up to it regulary, so my laptop gets backed up even when i am offline

<cehteh>thats the predcessor of that script, might be more useful to you

<cehteh> http://public.pipapo.org/mmcbackup

<cehteh>mounts a disk (sd card), including encryption, deletes old backups until enough space is free, uses rsync to backup with hardlinks to the previous backup

<reirob>if possible I would something maintained with a future and a user base - not something I have to think much by myself. Rsync stuff I was doing before myself. But it didn't cope well with generations, deduplication and strong encryption. This is why I chose obnam

<cehteh>it does

<reirob>But thank you anyway

<cehteh>well encryption is solved otherwise (dmcrypt)

<cehteh>but generations and deduplication is handled

<reirob>I bookmarked your URL with a backup tag ;-)

<reirob>Maybe I will go your way - will have to see how I can set-up an encrypted FS

<cehteh>and you dont need any other tool for restore, the files are plainly available

<reirob>and how portable and quick this is on different distributions

<cehteh>dmcrypt is in kernel, almost all distributions support it

<reirob>ACTION is happy - emacs + spacemacs config works :-)

<cehteh>with the luks header you are pretty portable too, because the encryption metadata is stored with the partition

<cehteh>ACTION uses system encryption everywhere, since many years

<reirob>and how strong is the encryption compared with a gpg encrypted data?

<cehteh>yet alone when you want to send a bad drive in for repairs its important

<cehteh>as strong as gpg

<reirob>good

<reirob>I will give it a spin in the next months - because I have to find a replacement for obnam quickly

<cehteh>well you can change the algorithms, but defaults are good

<cehteh>i used some other tools, and cursed because rdiff backup for example once lost backward compatibility, fucked up and so on

<cehteh>eventually some niche projects just die as you see with obnam

<reirob>was using linux encryption on my old machine for 2 1/2 years now. was ok, could sleep well, but for the new machine went with hardware encryption

<cehteh>many people use duplicity, may work

<cehteh>but rsync as backend is just mature and works

<reirob>I used duplicity - but in the end I gave up - it was slower on each back-up

<cehteh>for hardware encryption you have to trust the hardware :D

<reirob>will give rsync with an encrypted fs a spin

<cehteh>well on my laptop i use that too because the controller of the SSD is somewhat special it wont work well with software encryption

<reirob>well, I use the SSD AES encryption, where the keys are protected by the password on boot - so the OS doesn't know anything about it

<reirob>the good thing is that I can wipe it immediately by regenarating new keys.

<cehteh>but you never know if the hardware has some backdoors

<cehteh>same with software encryption, just forget the key and you are bust :D

<reirob>if the hardware has back doors, I don't care - I just want to protect against loss and theft. I know that if I would be a target for secret services, I have no chance

<cehteh>prolly

<cehteh>anyway with raid, software encryption is the better way to go

<cehteh>and about my scripts .. even if i get hit by a bus, the backups are still working, the data is plain and rsyncable

<cehteh>eventually i plan to document my rstore thing a bit .. some people use it, same for the mmc backup

<reirob>I will see in the next days - I have some regresssion tests that are very IO intense and with these I had on write lock ups - once RAM didn't have enough cache, the machine locked up, like for 2 minutes, only mouse cursor moved, but the programs didn't react. I don't know what was the reason but I blamed the software encryption

<cehteh>mostly people i know/friends

<cehteh>you can renice the rsync (ionice)

<reirob>Good! Thank you a lot cehteh!

<reirob>How is the guix community doing? Is it easy to get using it? Is it easy to use it on a foreign-distro?

<cehteh> http://paste.debian.net/1000050/

<cehteh>here are the backup definitions to backup a raspberry pi

<reirob>perfect

<cehteh>shold be somewhat self explanatory

<cehteh>(hence no docs :D)

<reirob>That's the best! I use rsync anyway here and there for dev opsy work. And I used it for some time as backup solution too

<cehteh>its not the fastest, but good enough

<cehteh>and availabale everywhere and mature, that counts most

<reirob>Yes, this is the most important - stability and security

<reirob>What can you people advice me when starting using guix (on a foreign-distro, to learn basics and in future, if mature enogh to move to guixsd)

<reirob>what should be things to learn, the mistakes to avoid?

<cehteh>i'd just installed guixsd in a VM

<rekado_>reirob: I use borg for backups.

<cehteh>and still struggeling a bit

<rekado_>I use GuixSD almost exclusively

<reirob>@rekado_ - yes I have seen some people suggesting borg. How is it for you?

<rekado_>works fine for me.

<rekado_>I’m not passionate about backup systems.

<reirob>well, guixsd is not yet viable for me. I need a productive solution - because I use my laptop for work and I have a lot of requirements from commercial domain

<reirob>like having a windows VM, teamviewer, skype and stuff.

<rekado_>I also use commercial software, like Ardour.

<rekado_>you mean proprietary software.

<cehteh>is ardour commercial?

<reirob>well - proprietary software for me limits itself - running inside virtualbox VMs ,including windows (omg have to install it today )

<reirob>but most of the time i'm on the console - shell + haskell + some java + some proprietary domain specific languages

<reirob>maybe guixsd will be mature enough in 2 years - I was observing and trying it out, playing on some spare machines and in qemu. but it's not there yet. Therefore the decision to start with guix on a foreign-distro

<reirob>like this I can slowly learn the commands, the configuration, maybe make some of packages for my configuration

<reirob>I like the idea behind guix.

<reirob>And when it's time for a new machine, in 2 years, maybe I'll do the jump

<reirob>but I have to make sure that whatever I need for my work - just works and can be easily set-up. So all the unixy stuff will be easy. For haskell, I just need to install stack and all the rest will be self-hosting from there. Emacs + Spacemacs I got running as guix - VIM too

<reirob>So, all in all it's a good start

<reirob>And anyway the Linux workstation/desktop stack is in transition from what I read. Ubuntu jumped on wayland, and I am not sure how mature this is.

<efraim>Ardour has a free license and sells precompiled binaries on their website

<reirob>And they are going from unity to gnome - so the next lts would be anyway a bigger change for me, I mean in 2019/2020

<reirob>For backup I will use only free open source solutions

<reirob>I prefer to be in a situation in which I am now with obnam and move on to another open source solution - than being dependant on a company

<reirob>I have to go now. Many thanks for all the help and advices ! I wish all a good day!

<rekado_>if the ability to run proprietary software seamlessly is a proxy for maturity then GuixSD will never be mature.

<stefanc_diff>is there a changelog maintained of changes/updates to guix ? I can see version 0.14.0 has been released but I can't see a changelog file to grok what was updated

<rekado_>stefanc_diff: there’s a NEWS file.

<cehteh>rekado_: which is a bit bad, because 'freedom 0" already defined to run any software the user wants for any purpose. guix goal of course is only to provide 'free' as in libre software. but it if that excludes that basic freedom it has a problem as well

<stefanc_diff>thanks rekado_ my eyes filtered out the NEWS file since I was looking for a CHANGELOG file :)

<wigust>cehteh: There is no word "any". The "freedom 0" defines what program is free software.

<wigust>cehteh: You cannot run proprietary software as you wish and for any purpose, so they don't pass "freedom 0".

<cehteh>depends

<cehteh>the 'freeware' stuff or 'shareware' often complys to freedom 0 but is nether free software nor open source

<rekado_>cehteh: note the qualifier “seamlessly” and the context: maturity does not depend on making proprietary software easy to run.

<buenouanq>you are free to try and run any software you wish on GuixSD

<buenouanq>though if it happens to be proprietary you will get no help from the offical project

<clacke[m]>cehteh: you of course have the freedom to do what you like with the software, but you cannot demand that others make the efforts and accomodation for it

<cehteh>yeah i somewhat dislike that attitude, refusing help to someone if one could easily help doesnt sound nice to me. (note about 'help' i am not asking for offering free support or even inclusion of non free software) .. just the "OMG please do not help anyone running non free pograms" sux

<cehteh>i for myself can kindly reject such requests in many cases just because i dont know how to help in most of those cases, because mostly i dont run non free software

<clacke[m]>if a project is associated to an organization that officially holds that non-free software is immoral, you shouldn't expect otherwise

<cehteh>but if someone asks me about help and I actually know how to fix his problen then why not help him?

<cehteh>yeah i feel bad about that, because not helping people (if you could do that effortless) is immoral too

<Digit>ACTION rewatches guix videos, and cues up some lisp videos, i vain hope of getting more engaged and competent

<buenouanq>because you're actually not helping them

<Digit>gotta be cunning on how to help. to teach how to fish, not just give fish. sometimes both can be done at the same time.

<cehteh>if it solves their problem it is helping

<Digit>including their problem about not knowing how to find the solutions themselves.

<cehteh>if there is a free software solution which solves the problem the better

<buenouanq>no, you're perpetuating all the awfulness the fsf was made to combat

<Digit>buenouanq: ? who, how?

<cehteh>you have to see this from a user perspective, users sometimes should not be bothered with system administration and just want to get some work done

<buenouanq>in a computationally centric society, when you don't have control over your computing, whoever does has control over you

<Digit>cehteh: ah, the "just work" philosophy. XD

<buenouanq>helping someone be comfortable in such slavery, is not in any way actually helping them

<cehteh>so how would you solve the probelm?

<cehteh>for example my wife is psychotherapist and needs some special, propietary billing software which needs to be cerified by german healthcare, no way to easily make an free alternative

<Digit>yeah. if you can slip them some education/elucidation/empowerment, if/while feeding them, then you can be genuinely helping them while giving them the faux-help they think they want.

<buenouanq>help them to open the door and move away from whatever prison they think they have no choice but to remain in

<cehteh>its sad, and i would like to press the politics to make such things free

<Digit>cehteh: i'd start by exploring/inpinning the "need".

<Digit>un*

<cehteh>but for now she has to use this software, else she cant earn money

<Digit>"has to"

<buenouanq>that's silly

<cehteh>yes .. but whats your proposed solution?

<cehteh>stop working?

<Digit>cehteh: ... are you serious?

<cehteh>no

<buenouanq>well, ultimately yes - but that prolly shouldn't be brought up in this room

<buenouanq>if it can be done, it can be done with free software

<buenouanq>to think that you `have to' use something is silly

<cehteh>maybe some day

<cehteh>yeah it is silly, i fully agree

<Digit>ACTION shrugs, unsure what the intended rhetoric was supposed to be saying, since twasnt seriously unable think outside the false dichotomy.

<cehteh>but I or we cant change this system in an instant

<Digit>"cant"

<cehteh>as in now

<buenouanq>Freedom is more important than capability, comfort, and convenience.

<cehteh>freedom is luxus

<cehteh>many people give up freedome before they starve

<Digit>sorry for just repeating these snippets, but it seems to me to be "self fullfilling prophecy" type affirmations.

<buenouanq>you can pretend that you can't live without X proprietary software,

<kmicu>ACTION needed to double check if he is on #guix

<buenouanq>or you can be open to change and different ways of doing things

<cehteh>buenouanq: i'd be happy if you show me an anternative

<Digit>cehteh: for? the billing software? what did your searches for free software for billing provide?

<buenouanq>the concept of alternative implies that the proprietary choice is valid or in some way equal

<cehteh>Digit: "it needs to be certified to use within the german healthcare system" ..

<buenouanq>germans are all about free software

<cehteh>not really

<Digit>validity implied. yep. it suggests entrenchment in the propaganda/advertising shpeal convincing people that their solution is "the" solution, as a means of striving for monopoly and total control over the market and their captive cash-cow consumer audience.

<rekado_>maybe another channel is a better place for this discussion.

<Digit>rekado_: got anywhere specific in mind? #fsf #freesoftware #gnu something like that?

<rekado_>no, I just know it’s probably not #guix ;)

<cehteh>well it started about guix :D

<Digit>well, cehteh if you value freedom, you could take it upstream. repeatedly asking for us in here to provide suggestions, whether rhetorical or genuinely asking, seems to be making the natives restless with the offtopicness.

<rekado_>in the case of Guix, running pre-built binaries will never be without problems due to the fact that we’re building all software from source and with a differerent dynamic linker.

<rekado_>we couldn’t possibly guarantee that things would work when libraries are pre-loaded with LD_PRELOAD or when linker references are patched out.

<rekado_>when a user insists on using binary blobs that cannot be built from source then they cannot use Guix facilities

<rekado_>and that means that we cannot help them.

<Digit>short of going outside guix's remit. ... like could be hired to write a piece of freedom respecting software to fit the use case.

<cehteh>cannot help is ok, but propagating that "would not help" or even tell other people that they "should not help" others because they want to run evil software is a nogo imo

<Digit>tho, that might be help.

<cehteh>i am pissed by that attitude, not by technical limitations

<Digit>ACTION thinks "running over the same old ground"

<cehteh>if there is no free alternative i dont want to become blamed if i tell someone "then there is nothing left than installing a non free OS in a vm under gux and run that non free software you want to run for whatever reason"

<buenouanq>again, it's not actually helping them, in the long run you are harming them yourself and the rest of us

<Digit>rekado_: sorry... cehteh keeps saying things about this that provoke me into wanting to reply. XD sets the goal posts up to fail.

<buenouanq>it's the `for whatever reason' that needs to be torn apart - mostly when you look into it, the reasons are really dumb and trivial

<Digit>buenouanq: and the "no free alternative" could do with disecting too.

<buenouanq>it usually boils down to `but it doesn't look right or work in the exact same way'

<cehteh>often it does, and yes .. my wife uses only free software for all other tasks

<buenouanq>people just don't like the temporary discomfort of change, however small benefical or trivial

<buenouanq>and I don't know how to make people value freedom in a way that helps them overcome it

<cehteh>but giving a genereal answer to a specific problem wont solve this

<Digit>neither will help-leaching

<buenouanq>to pull this back to guix,

<buenouanq>what I think you're going to see happen over the next few years

<Digit>thankyou buenouanq. (been searching for a way out)

<buenouanq>because of the reproducable builds thing

<buenouanq>is people switching from `This is great, I need this to work on Windows (because that's what we do and have always done here)'

<clacke[m]>To me it's clear that idealism and pragmatism are both valid viewpoints depending on context and personality/priors

<buenouanq>to `Well, I can build what I need for whatever straight from GuixSD and not have any of that headache'

<clacke[m]>luckily we have idealist guix and pragmatist nix

<clacke[m]>may a thousand flowets bloom

<Digit>:)

<buenouanq>and from there they will realize hopefully that their thoughts about needing proprietary software for anything were bogus all along

<clacke[m]>flowers*

<buenouanq>again, enabling slavery perpetuation can hardly be considered pragmatic

<castilma>hey guys, does alt+sys-rq+k on tty1 kill everything on your guixsd? it did on mine, which resulted in a panicked kernel (attempt to kill init) and a semibroken filesystem...

<kmicu>[sarcastically] Again, #guix-offtopic awaits you.

<castilma>(obvious hint: close every program you are currently working with and sync and remount your fs readonly before you check this.)

<kmicu>Hi castilma, thank you for the related question. What is alt+sys-rq+k?

<kmicu>ACTION is reading about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_SysRq_key

<Digit>ACTION presumes sys-rq = SysReq

<castilma>digit: yes

<castilma>followup: fsck removed some files. i can chroot into the guixsd, but there is no /etc/profile anymore. any tips? I'm thinking of running another guixsd in a vm, mount the broken guixsd in it and do guix system init config.scm /mnt. but does that reset the store db?

<cehteh>castilma: checked /lost+found ?

<kmicu>(We shouldn't be surprised that there aren't too many users here willing to carry out a potentially destructive action.)

<kmicu>castilma: do you want to avoid downloading the store again? Is installing from scratch based on your config an option?

<castilma>cehteh:yes, I checked lost+found. there are some dirs, but nothing usefull.

<cehteh>then restore from your backup .. you have backup? :D

<castilma>kmicu: no, it's fine if i have to redownload the store again. yes, reinstalling based on conf is an option.

<castilma>cehteh: no. there is no valuable data on it. only the config is the valuable thing. and i have it

<cehteh>k

<castilma>so: download install image and just install like the first time with my conf?

<wigust>castilma: Maybe you want to check the installation drive before reinstallation?

<wigust>It could fail the second time.

<castilma>what kind of check do you mean?

<cehteh>badblocks, smartcheck

<cehteh>note: smartcheck on some implementations aborts on the first error found, i'd recommend to run a full badblocks write check with its 5 passes, that may even force the firmware to repair errors, smartctl afterwards will tell you the state of the disk then

<civodul>Hello Guix!

<janneke>hey civodul!

<efraim>not sure specifically if it's mcron or guix related, after a reboot I have to run 'mcron' to get my user cron started again

<efraim>tangentially related, debian reports that they are the upstream for the 'at' package: https://sources.debian.org/src/at/3.1.20-3.1/debian/watch/#L1

<civodul>yes

<civodul>the initial plan was to have an 'at' command in mcron

<efraim>Having looked a bit at mcron, it seems that 'at' could be written to create a one-off cron job, we don't really need an at server or daemon like a traditional distro

<civodul>yes, exactly

<civodul>the mcron manual talks about 'at' IIRC

<civodul>it's extra work, but it "shouldn't be hard"

<mb[m]1>efraim: 'gettext' now fails to build on core-updates, can you look into it?

<mb[m]1> https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-gettext/2017-10/msg00014.html

<mb[m]1>Wow, when did boost gain 1300 dependents.

<civodul>heya mb[m]1!

<civodul>does it fail on all platforms?

<mb[m]1>I think so, it's a gawk-related test failure

<efraim>yeah i'll take a look at it

<efraim>I should figure out why debootstrap is setuid

<efraim>mb[m]1: did you have a test directory in gettext-minimal after you built? mine seems to have disapeared

<efraim>nvm, i see it should be in gettext-tools/tests

<efraim>it might be because gawk is built without gettext support but isn't passed '--disable-nls'

<efraim>i'll test it out

<str1ngs>I have a desktop, that doubles as a server. I've configured it to use openssh. but when I use %desktop-services the server does not start automatically. I have to start it manually. I suspect its timing out waiting for another service, maybe network-manager. The network does seems to take awhile to come up. when I use %base-services the service starts fine. How do I figure out what causing it to not start?

<efraim>adding gettext-minimal to gawk doesn't fix the gettext gawk test failure

<efraim>building gawk with '--disable-nls' makes the test pass, but i don't like it

<efraim>i love when the difference between writing a passing test and a skipped test is leading whitespace :/

<efraim>i don't understand how only the one line wasn't translated in the gettext test suite

<civodul>efraim: perhaps the test should be run with LC_MESSAGES=C ?

<efraim>its a 3 line test, the first two lines are translated and the 3rd one appears not to be

<castilma>can someone check, if guix build icecat allocates as much ram as there is and then fails?

<castilma>it does on my system

<efraim> https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/gettext.git/tree/gettext-tools/tests/lang-gawk#n63

<civodul>castilma: it works for me, on x86_64

<efraim>right now i'm guessing that '%2$s' no longer means 'the second variable' for gawk

<civodul>hmm

<civodul>how about reverting the gawk upgrade?

<civodul>that would allow us to proceed

<civodul>and it's ok to get that upgrade later i think :-)

<castilma>civodul: thanks. any idea how i can debug it/get enough information to put it in the mailing list?

<civodul>castilma: unset GUIX_PACKAGE_PATH, make sure you're working from a clean master tree, and then try variants, like "guix build icecat -n", "guix build icecat --no-substitutes", "guix build icecat --no-grafts"

<efraim>i'll revert the gawk update with a note that it was past the merge window

<civodul>castilma: then you can report the details to bug-guix@gnu.org

<civodul>efraim: sounds good!

<g_bor>Hello guix!

<civodul>hi g_bor!

<g_bor>I'd like to know if it's normal, that after a make check git status shows modified .po files.

<civodul>it's confusing, but it's normal

<civodul>(cd po; git checkout .)

<civodul>well not after "make check", but rather "make dist" or "autoreconf" or similar

<g_bor>Ok, thanks for that.

<g_bor>civodul: We had a discussion with ng0 yesterday about gnupg and pinentry. What should be done about that? It would be nice to have this working without the manual step...

<efraim>Unless there's an environmental variable for pinentry or gnupg I'm not sure there's much that can be done automatically

<civodul>g_bor: we had this discussion some time ago already, and i think we almost came up with a solution :-)

<civodul>lemme see

<efraim>We could print something after installing gnupg or pinentry how to set it up

<civodul>this: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-guix/2016-07/msg00092.html

<efraim>I came across something similar with git send email needing the full path to my msmtp binary

<efraim>It could also be $localstatedir/guix/profiles/per-user/...

<civodul>but we don't know guix's $localstatedir there

<civodul>so i think our best bet is ~/.guix-profile

<g_bor>I think guix-profile is ok here.

<g_bor>What would be nice is to also have a pinentry installed with gpg.

<g_bor>Do we have a method to say something like this?

<g_bor>Like a metapackage?

<g_bor>O

<g_bor>Or a service providing pinentry?

<g_bor>I have to go to sleep now!

<g_bor>Bye!

<g_bor>Will check tomorrow if this has gone further...

<g_bor>Thank you!

<civodul>sneek: later tell g_bor we don't have meta-packages that could install both gpg and pinentry

<sneek>Will do.

<ofosos>Hey, guix. My emacs/magit is painfully slow when I work on a guix clone, anyone got a recipe how to fix this?

<civodul>ofosos: you need to make sure to compile Guix beforehand

<civodul>otherwise C-c C-k triggers autocompilation of the whole world, which can take ages

<civodul>so run "make"

<ofosos>I did run make

<ofosos>It seems to hang, even when I scroll line by line through the magit status buffer.

<ofosos>It's not really a hard hang, but it's gone for 10-20 seconds or so.

<ofosos>Is this correct that magit picks up all the changes in po/pakcages/*.po?

<enick_107>Will the key for Berlin be trusted automatically if I'm running GuixSD from a git checkout?

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2017-12-10.log