<reirob>I slowly get the impression, that using guix in a foreign distro has quite some learning curve. The stuff with the certificates should be handled as a dependency. Why is git installable without setting the ssl stuff?
<reirob>I mean, why do I have to install nss-certs manually?
<reirob>Well, installed nss-certs and set up the env variables. Git seems to work
<reirob>emacs is downloading all the spacemacs stuff now
<reirob>But what I wish in the long run, is having my custom guix-emacs configuration, so if I need to install a new machine, I can install my custom package which will have all the settings inside. This is what I will try to learn how to do, if guix on a foreign distro proves to be a viable day to day option
<reirob>Now a bit off-topic: I need a new backup solution. Was quite happy with obnam - until today, well yesterday
<reirob>I made a last backup from the old machine and thought this is a good moment to test if restore works
<cehteh>mounts a disk (sd card), including encryption, deletes old backups until enough space is free, uses rsync to backup with hardlinks to the previous backup
<reirob>if possible I would something maintained with a future and a user base - not something I have to think much by myself. Rsync stuff I was doing before myself. But it didn't cope well with generations, deduplication and strong encryption. This is why I chose obnam
<cehteh>anyway with raid, software encryption is the better way to go
<cehteh>and about my scripts .. even if i get hit by a bus, the backups are still working, the data is plain and rsyncable
<cehteh>eventually i plan to document my rstore thing a bit .. some people use it, same for the mmc backup
<reirob>I will see in the next days - I have some regresssion tests that are very IO intense and with these I had on write lock ups - once RAM didn't have enough cache, the machine locked up, like for 2 minutes, only mouse cursor moved, but the programs didn't react. I don't know what was the reason but I blamed the software encryption
<reirob>well - proprietary software for me limits itself - running inside virtualbox VMs ,including windows (omg have to install it today )
<reirob>but most of the time i'm on the console - shell + haskell + some java + some proprietary domain specific languages
<reirob>maybe guixsd will be mature enough in 2 years - I was observing and trying it out, playing on some spare machines and in qemu. but it's not there yet. Therefore the decision to start with guix on a foreign-distro
<reirob>like this I can slowly learn the commands, the configuration, maybe make some of packages for my configuration
<reirob>And when it's time for a new machine, in 2 years, maybe I'll do the jump
<reirob>but I have to make sure that whatever I need for my work - just works and can be easily set-up. So all the unixy stuff will be easy. For haskell, I just need to install stack and all the rest will be self-hosting from there. Emacs + Spacemacs I got running as guix - VIM too
<cehteh>rekado_: which is a bit bad, because 'freedom 0" already defined to run any software the user wants for any purpose. guix goal of course is only to provide 'free' as in libre software. but it if that excludes that basic freedom it has a problem as well
<stefanc_diff>thanks rekado_ my eyes filtered out the NEWS file since I was looking for a CHANGELOG file :)
<wigust>cehteh: There is no word "any". The "freedom 0" defines what program is free software.
<wigust>cehteh: You cannot run proprietary software as you wish and for any purpose, so they don't pass "freedom 0".
<cehteh>the 'freeware' stuff or 'shareware' often complys to freedom 0 but is nether free software nor open source
<rekado_>cehteh: note the qualifier “seamlessly” and the context: maturity does not depend on making proprietary software easy to run.
<buenouanq>you are free to try and run any software you wish on GuixSD
<buenouanq>though if it happens to be proprietary you will get no help from the offical project
<clacke[m]>cehteh: you of course have the freedom to do what you like with the software, but you cannot demand that others make the efforts and accomodation for it
<cehteh>yeah i somewhat dislike that attitude, refusing help to someone if one could easily help doesnt sound nice to me. (note about 'help' i am not asking for offering free support or even inclusion of non free software) .. just the "OMG please do not help anyone running non free pograms" sux
<cehteh>i for myself can kindly reject such requests in many cases just because i dont know how to help in most of those cases, because mostly i dont run non free software
<clacke[m]>if a project is associated to an organization that officially holds that non-free software is immoral, you shouldn't expect otherwise
<cehteh>but if someone asks me about help and I actually know how to fix his problen then why not help him?
<cehteh>yeah i feel bad about that, because not helping people (if you could do that effortless) is immoral too
<Digit>ACTION rewatches guix videos, and cues up some lisp videos, i vain hope of getting more engaged and competent
<Digit>validity implied. yep. it suggests entrenchment in the propaganda/advertising shpeal convincing people that their solution is "the" solution, as a means of striving for monopoly and total control over the market and their captive cash-cow consumer audience.
<rekado_>maybe another channel is a better place for this discussion.
<Digit>rekado_: got anywhere specific in mind? #fsf #freesoftware #gnu something like that?
<rekado_>no, I just know it’s probably not #guix ;)
<Digit>well, cehteh if you value freedom, you could take it upstream. repeatedly asking for us in here to provide suggestions, whether rhetorical or genuinely asking, seems to be making the natives restless with the offtopicness.
<rekado_>in the case of Guix, running pre-built binaries will never be without problems due to the fact that we’re building all software from source and with a differerent dynamic linker.
<rekado_>we couldn’t possibly guarantee that things would work when libraries are pre-loaded with LD_PRELOAD or when linker references are patched out.
<rekado_>when a user insists on using binary blobs that cannot be built from source then they cannot use Guix facilities
<cehteh>i am pissed by that attitude, not by technical limitations
<Digit>ACTION thinks "running over the same old ground"
<cehteh>if there is no free alternative i dont want to become blamed if i tell someone "then there is nothing left than installing a non free OS in a vm under gux and run that non free software you want to run for whatever reason"
<buenouanq>again, it's not actually helping them, in the long run you are harming them yourself and the rest of us
<Digit>rekado_: sorry... cehteh keeps saying things about this that provoke me into wanting to reply. XD sets the goal posts up to fail.
<buenouanq>it's the `for whatever reason' that needs to be torn apart - mostly when you look into it, the reasons are really dumb and trivial
<Digit>buenouanq: and the "no free alternative" could do with disecting too.
<buenouanq>it usually boils down to `but it doesn't look right or work in the exact same way'
<cehteh>often it does, and yes .. my wife uses only free software for all other tasks
<buenouanq>people just don't like the temporary discomfort of change, however small benefical or trivial
<buenouanq>and I don't know how to make people value freedom in a way that helps them overcome it
<cehteh>but giving a genereal answer to a specific problem wont solve this
<castilma>followup: fsck removed some files. i can chroot into the guixsd, but there is no /etc/profile anymore. any tips? I'm thinking of running another guixsd in a vm, mount the broken guixsd in it and do guix system init config.scm /mnt. but does that reset the store db?
<cehteh>note: smartcheck on some implementations aborts on the first error found, i'd recommend to run a full badblocks write check with its 5 passes, that may even force the firmware to repair errors, smartctl afterwards will tell you the state of the disk then
<str1ngs>I have a desktop, that doubles as a server. I've configured it to use openssh. but when I use %desktop-services the server does not start automatically. I have to start it manually. I suspect its timing out waiting for another service, maybe network-manager. The network does seems to take awhile to come up. when I use %base-services the service starts fine. How do I figure out what causing it to not start?
<efraim>adding gettext-minimal to gawk doesn't fix the gettext gawk test failure
<efraim>building gawk with '--disable-nls' makes the test pass, but i don't like it
<efraim>i love when the difference between writing a passing test and a skipped test is leading whitespace :/
<efraim>i don't understand how only the one line wasn't translated in the gettext test suite
<civodul>efraim: perhaps the test should be run with LC_MESSAGES=C ?
<efraim>its a 3 line test, the first two lines are translated and the 3rd one appears not to be
<castilma>can someone check, if guix build icecat allocates as much ram as there is and then fails?
<civodul>and it's ok to get that upgrade later i think :-)
<castilma>civodul: thanks. any idea how i can debug it/get enough information to put it in the mailing list?
<civodul>castilma: unset GUIX_PACKAGE_PATH, make sure you're working from a clean master tree, and then try variants, like "guix build icecat -n", "guix build icecat --no-substitutes", "guix build icecat --no-grafts"
<efraim>i'll revert the gawk update with a note that it was past the merge window
<civodul>castilma: then you can report the details to email@example.com