<bms_>P2P almost seems better, but it kind of confuses me. I have trouble understanding the theory behind actually implementing peer-to-peer systems.
<bms_>Like, I understand what it means, but I've had trouble wrapping my head around distributed hash tables. Think it's worth looking back into?
<OriansJ>bms_: well distributed hash tables are only one way to implement p2p communication. Another option is what is called centralized lookup; which is what skype originally used. Basically the clients only talk to a centralized server to initialize the sessions between the 2 nodes
<OriansJ>which if you cleanly seperate the session initialization from the actual session protocall itself, you can always transistion it later
<bms_>Yes, I saw that on Wikipedia, but the current design of Msg is based on the lack of a central server, instead using small community-servers run by the users themselves. I really like this design, even though I'd like to get p2p working more. I see p2p as more of an extension of this design than as a new design completely, so I think my problem with the centralized lookup server border on the ethical.
<OriansJ>bms_: centralized lookup doesn't have to mean globally centralized. Federation is always a possible approach
<bms_>Oh. Hmm. I hadn't thought of that. I rather like it actually. It keeps the small server idea, while also being closer to p2p. Thank you.
<bms_>Msg design issue poll: Originally, my idea was to have it work through interactive terminal sessions, almost like a shell. Now, I've begun having doubts about that design. I know a lot of people work in an environment where they can have multiple "windows" open, one of which could be for Msg, but some people don't have that or, more likely, prefer not to use it. So I've had an interesting thought that could greatly complicate writing
<bms_>this program: how do I accomodate for the disparity in windowed environment usage. Do I run the client as a daemon that hands the messages to the user. The server wouldn't have to change much (yes, I've "regressed" back to my original non-p2p design; I kind of like it more). If I do that, how do I not break a running session of, for instance nano or Emacs? Do I make the client an Emacs mode and only have the server be its own program,
<bms_>cutting off a large batch of my target audience?
<OriansJ>bms_: erc might provide some model ideas to play with
<bms_>Yes, I'm using it right now... I just don't know if that's the route I should take or not.
<OriansJ>bms_: why dictate to the user how they can interact? simply provide mechanisms which multiple different types of front ends could use
<bms_>That's a good idea, actually. I've been too caught up in designing the user interface (something at which I'm horrendously bad) that I didn't think about what I should be doing: designing an accessible and powerful backend. Thanks again!
<OriansJ>bms_: out of curiousity, wouldn't it be easier to gain adoption if you targeted a gap in the current market?
<bms_>It would. I'm pretty darn awful at finding those gaps and also knowing what people like -- I generally don't like a lot of stuff that others do, and vice versa. Did you have a gap in mind?
<OriansJ>bms_: let me ask you a more useful question. What small thing would make your day better?
<bms_>Because the more and more I dive into this, the more and more I realize that the current standards (IRC and the like) are just good enough to block everyday usage of my (possibly) better alternative.
<OriansJ>bms_: that very perspective is why matrix (riot.im) was created.
<bms_>That's the question everyone asks themselves when coming up with ideas... I've historically had trouble answering it myself. I mean, I could use a lot of things. Expensive things, but they'd most likely not make my day-to-day life any "better".
<bms_>Oh, great. Another piece of competing software.
<bms_>I think that if I want this to work, I might have to rethink things a little.
<OriansJ>bms_: things don't make people happy. Experiences with people are what usually makes people happy.
<OriansJ>so perhaps what you are looking for is an excuse to create, share and feel like you belong.
<bms_>I understand that, but you can't bottle social interaction and put it online for everyone to download. If you could, I would have found *that* by now.
<OriansJ>good, bms_ you share that with all of us here.
<bms_>Well, that's all well and good, but what does it mean for something to dedicate my time to.
<bms_>Don't get me wrong, I really like you all, but I don't completely understand what you're getting at.
<OriansJ>bms_: it means you'll see things that need doing here that you feel you can do. Those are the things to go after
<OriansJ>some people do bug reports, some patches, some infrastructure and some development. But we all are first solving a problem we feel needs to be addressed
<bms_>That's an interesting perspective, OriansJ. Hopefully I see those things before I get too bored and crack. I seem to always need something to do. I can't even watch television without doing something else, at least semi-actively. I can't be passive. When I don't have a project of some sort, it just kind of bugs me just enough to annoy me into finding something to do. Maybe I should just finally dive head-first into music. Not like
<bms_>there's a future in wanting to be Keith Emerson.
<bms_>Thanks for talking to me, by the way. I'm probably coming off as a bit apathetic and pessimistic, and I am in fact the latter, but I do really appreciate this.
<OriansJ>bms_: I am always available if you want to talk.
<OriansJ>I'm on signal or riot.im should you wish for voice conversation.
<bms_>Oh, cool. Voice conversations are an interesting idea. I used to Skype with my friends often, but we don't seem to anymore. Generally, I just resort to singing when they get awkward. I can sing all of Jesus Christ Superstar and pretty much any classic prog rock song you can throw at me. :P But yes, I might like that sometime.
<bms_>I'm really an odd bird... I realized that while writing that.
<happy_gnu[m]>OriansJ bms_ what a wonderful conversion you are having \\o/
<bms_>Well, I used to have two friends. I'm down to one because the other one is a liar, drug dealer, and possibly worse.
<bms_>It was a big thing around the end of last school year. It's kind of sad. My whole high school has this obvious drug culture that the administration doesn't do a thing about. The sex stuff is worse. It gets annoying hearing about everyone's "brave exploits" in carnal affection during school hours. I hate it. It hurts how bad everyone is.
<htgoebel>Guest83299: Would be worth a try. Sadly the installed guix is not the one which created the system (vm-image) and thus guix tries to install a log of other stuff :-(
<civodul>cbaines: i wonder if the switch from unionfs to overlayfs by htgoebel improves performance for you?
<davexunit>morning folks. someone from the fsf sent me an email yesterday wondering if I wanted to submit a proposal for a talk at libreplanet 2018. I may submit a proposal for a general guix project update.
<benny>vagrantc: I had that as well and then after a guix pull + reconfigure later it worked properly
<DusXMT>I wonder, is there a way to add folders within the profile to the include path of a package to be built? Long story short, package assumes that headers that are in a subdirectory on GNU/Linux are available directly
<bavier>DusXMT: sometimes we fix that by adding CPPFLAGS
<DusXMT>Mmmm... cmake seems to not to care about that env. var... perhaps it can be made to care about it...
<vagrantc>janneke: not surprising that such a thing exists ... seems well adapted to transient environments of some form or another
<lfam>benny: Is this `guix pull` on behalf of root or an unprivileged user? I'm wondering if there is some API incompatibility between the running guix-daemon (controlled by root at the system level) and whoever is running `guix pull`
<vagrantc>so, individual users have individual versions of "guix" installed?
<benny>which doesn't help if you set it on root to the one working from $USER
<benny>the version is now the same but pull still fails
<DusXMT>Hmmm... I'm having problems with guix package and guix environment not wanting to work if I have .config/guix/latest linked to a git tree: https://dpaste.de/2pf1 --- The error persists even if I restore the tree to a default state