<mark_weaver>sneek: later tell lfam: hydra will automatically create a new evaluation for wip-python if that branch changes, but last I checked it hasn't been touched in a long time. <sneek>Welcome back mark_weaver, you have 1 message. <sneek>mark_weaver, lfam says: Is it possible to start an evaluation of wip-python? It seems that most of the failed jobs are caused by failures of guile-2.0 and subversion. But, I can get subsitutes for those packages from wip-python, so I think the issues have been resolved. <mark_weaver>sneek: later tell lfam: I've asked hydra to restart all dependency-failed builds a few times, including just a few hours ago. <mark_weaver>sneek: later tell lfam: if you want to help make progress on that branch, I would suggest working on all of the python-* and python2-* build failures, most of which seem to be real problems <mark_weaver>sneek: later tell lfam: (btw, I increased the proxy timeouts in nginx for URLs like this, so https should now work for this purpose) <lfam>Who was working on updating Python to 3.5? <sneek>Welcome back lfam, you have 4 messages. <sneek>lfam, mark_weaver says: hydra will automatically create a new evaluation for wip-python if that branch changes, but last I checked it hasn't been touched in a long time. <sneek>lfam, mark_weaver says: I've asked hydra to restart all dependency-failed builds a few times, including just a few hours ago. <sneek>lfam, mark_weaver says: if you want to help make progress on that branch, I would suggest working on all of the python-* and python2-* build failures, most of which seem to be real problems <sneek>lfam, mark_weaver says: (btw, I increased the proxy timeouts in nginx for URLs like this, so https should now work for this purpose) <lfam>paroneayea: Whatever happened to your python-3.5 update patch? Did you ever push that to Savannah? <lfam>I admit I thought that you had, but it seems not <lfam>If it works, can you put it on wip-python? <specing>Hi, is this also the channel for GuixSD? <specing>#guixsd only has one entity in it, so I assume it is... <specing>Does GuixSD run on top of grsecurity patches & does it support Ada (GNAT toolchain) as a first class citizen? <specing>to clarify what I mean with 'first class citizen': on Gentoo it is a separate package (and different version of gcc) than the system toolchain -> pain <specing>opening guix packages website was not a good idea... still waiting for firefox to unfreeze <ng0>hi. should I package fam? there's inotify now, but SGI::FAM module wants fam (obviously). the application where this is optional I package will soon switch to inotify, and due to my reporting the binary which uses this has been moved to the contrib area where the "needs to be updated" binaries sit <ng0>query person is new to me in ircii, i hope this reaches you. i use ircii which is not so feature bloated like weechat.. i need to work on that or my psyced instance again to join irc freenode from that <ng0>i think this went to the channel <ng0>adding to what I wrote before: the binary in question is used by no one currently and is easy to patch, so it will be patched some day. <ng0>coming to this perl module, should something as old as fam be packaged? it's successor seems to be inotify, fam has seen the last update in 2003 where it still has the version which OpenSuSe ships in /testing on the ftp <ng0>i think i have to use /PRIVMSG ... i don't know all the irc commands. <ng0>specing, one sec i have to read the backlog on website <ng0>the packages listing is terrible, as torproject and we also admit and discuss. at least the web listing. this needs to be fixed. second, there's slow work happening on hardening the toolchain,i'll get the email thread link <dtmeme>hello, how do I specify the swap partition in OS configuration? <ng0>feel free to provide more input, it's really welcome :) <ng0>dtmeme: example: (swap-devices '("/dev/sda3")) <dtmeme>and if I want to use a label with that? <specing>ng0: GuixSD does not use systemd, correct? <ng0>i'm not sure, someone else has to anwer this <specing>ng0: do you have a LinuxContainers template? <ng0>what do you mean by this? <ng0>you mean, how are guixsd images created? <ng0>ah, it sounded familiar <ng0>there's work happening on something comparable to nixops <ng0>for server deployment you have to ask people running it in institutes etc.. some of us here do <dtmeme>also the bootloader configuration is simply stupid <ng0>multitasking on 4 different things, i'll read the page to get a refresh on lcx <dtmeme>what if the device name changes after reboot? <dtmeme>I should change the configuration after reboot again? <specing>ng0: I'm asking so that I could easily try GuixSD in LXC <ng0>i'm not aware of any system where the bootoader disk changed it's /dev/{s/v}d* name <ng0>you can try it in qemu? <ng0>i'm not sure how lcx works.. someone else might or might not have an answer :) <ng0>you could even help improving the guix on gentoo if you feel like that's a start. it's in our (youbroketheinternet) overlay as "horrible testing" :) <ng0>horrible because I'm horrible with openrc scripts <specing>running GuixSD in LXC on Gentoo would have nothing to do with OpenRC <dtmeme>ng0 when I install GuixSD from USB, that USB is /dev/sda and the HDD is /dev/sda <ng0>okay... there was a thread like this on the mailinglist before... but i can#t recall it. stick around and someone will help <dtmeme>when I reboot, the HDD becomes /dev/sda, because I pull out the USB <ng0>specing: i meant just the guix daemon, you are right it has nothing to do with GuixSD <ng0>there are guix services and shepherd services <ng0>ACTION fixes outdated comments in the ebuild just linked <dtluna>why isn't swap configuration covered by the docs? <ng0>well.. this was straight copied from the guix manual. <ng0>dtluna: I'm not sure.. there's a small section on it. but maybe it could be extended? <dtluna>and what was strange is that GuixSD config didn't recognize the UUIDs properly <ng0>specing: could you join at www.psyced.org , room "OPSEC" (or write me an email if you prefer that) if you'd like to patch the broken state of it :)? it's not very offtopic here, but some would see fixing an ebuild as offtopic I guess <ng0>dtluna: this is not clear in the manual. do you feel like you can fix it or send an email to the guix-devel list so that it does not get lost? <dtluna>ng0 I am literally barely not swearing <specing>ng0: LXC == no kernel, just userspace <dtluna>ng0 how exactly do you expect me to know the configuration details without docs? How in the world can I contribute to the docs if I DON'T KNOW HOW CONFIG WORKS <dtluna>ng0 how is this relevant to my questions? <ng0>oh.. you are just setting it up for the first time. well, what i meant by email is, I am busy at the moment, but if email is an option for you, this could be addressed to either guix-devel@gnu.org or bug-guix@gnu.org and I'll see to fix it soon. <ng0>someone with experience in LXC should comment then <dtluna>seriously, including bootloader config is a very big mistake <dtluna>Parabola has it in a much more straightforward way <ng0>but the systems differ. I know genfstab and it would be great to have something similar in the future. the exact same thing without any extension would not work for guixsd <specing>ng0: all that is needed really is a script that sets up /dev and stuff (modify init scripts) to run in restricted containers <specing>ng0: for example, init scripts for fsck/mounting disks make no sense there <specing>Gentoo is one of the best distros for this as the init system detects LXC and automatically disables these scripts <dtluna>ng0 it is true, but why should I manually type the freaking UUIDs? <ng0>keep in mind that the system distribution itself is rather young. it's open to improvements and the word "beta" on it means that some things are lacking, like genfstab for example. <dtluna>I am absolutely sure because I have copied the values from /dev/disk/by-uuid <dtluna>then I followed the manual about UUIDs <dtluna>Still it does see the damn partitions after reboot <ng0>i can't help very much because I'm occupied with other things, someone else has to help :) specing, If no one can help you later, I'll try to address an email tonight so that it can be tracked and discussed. <ng0>i was wrong about my earlier statements, 2.7.0 is in /stable. it still feels unnecessary to package. <catern>hey, idea for unprivileged installation of guix with a user putting the store in their home directory <catern>if the store was configured as /tmp/gnu/store <catern>then /tmp/gnu/store was just a symlink to something in the homedir <catern>er, and then substitutes could be used I mean, rather than the packages being built pointing to a specific homedir <davexunit>dtluna: including bootloader config is not a mistake <davexunit>among other things, GuixSD allows one to boot previous generations of the system, and to do that it needs to generate the grub boot menu entries for each. <dtluna>davexunit well, on my system the device name for the primary HDD changes after the reboot <dtluna>davexunit: the HDD is /dev/sdb when I install the system from USB (which is /dev/sda), but when I reboot, the HDD becomes /dev/sda because I've removed the USB <davexunit>dtluna: it's best to use a partition label instead of relying upon file name in the device tree <dtluna>davexunit: how do i specify the label or UUID for the bootloader? <davexunit>oh the bootloader? I think you have to specify the device tree name for that one. I do it that way, anyway. <davexunit>but for my root file system I use a partition label <dtluna>davexunit: see? It is a mistake after all <davexunit>there could be something to be improved here. <dtluna>davenuxit: also after reboot my system doesn't see the labels <dtluna>davexunit: what's wrong with my tone? English is not my first language <dtluna>I have checked that the labels on my HDD partitions are set <joshuaBPMan_>Hey davexunit! You tips yesterday got guix working for me. I'm not running dual booting guixSD and parabola. Currently running guixSD! <davexunit>joshuaBPMan_: did I help with that or was it mark_weaver? <davexunit>I don't recall helping with this, so I don't want to take credit <dtluna>Probably should paste the config here <joshuaBPMan_>It might have been you both. I know you were involved. haha. <dtluna>I am absolutely positive I have set up the labels on the file systems <dtluna>I am also positive that I have properly configured these file systems in /etc/config.scm <dtluna>but my OS still doesn't see the partitions after the reboot <paroneayea>I think I got busy with w3c stuff and stopped paying attention to everything else in life. <davexunit>dtluna: I think writing to help-guix@gnu.org would be useful, so that the people who aren't on this IRC channel can see your problem and try to help. <davexunit>I'm fairly ignorant about bootloaders so I can't help much. <davexunit>I imagine there is a way to do what you need, but it might be un(der)documented or otherwise not obvious. <dtluna>davexunit: it's not about GRUB itself <dtluna>davexunit: it's about GuixSD configuration <davexunit>yeah I'm not very familiar with all of those details <dtluna>Also I can't setup the swap partition with UUID or a label <dtluna>and since HDD name in device tree changes, I simply can't set it properly <dtluna>davexunit: please report it to somebody because this is a missing feature <davexunit>dtluna: you can report it to bug-guix@gnu.org so that we don't lose track of it. <joshuaBPMan_>hello, I'm trying to run setxkbmap -options 'ctrl:swapcaps' to swap caps and ctrl in guixSD under gnome, but it doesn't appear to be working. <roptat>is there network support in guix's containers? I don't see any related option in the documentation <davexunit>roptat: you can pass --network to 'guix environment' <davexunit>GuixSD containers have no network support currently. <roptat>ok, I'll try to see how it's done <roptat>I'd like to be able to run servers in guix containers :) <davexunit>I couldn't make sense of the low-level networking interfaces to implement networking support when we first released container functionality <davexunit>so primarily I only use containers via 'guix environment --container' <joshuaBPMan_>davexunit: Would you mind elaborating about how guix containers need love? What other features would you like them to provide? <davexunit>and then a daemon that can manage the lifetime of many guixsd containers <davexunit>joshuaBPMan_: right now, a container can either have no network access (just its own loopback device) or share the host network. <davexunit>we need to provide the illusion that GuixSD has its own network device that it can initialize in the way it normally does. <davexunit>which requires using a network namespace (already have this) and creating some virtual networking devices (the part we're missing and I don't really understand) <joshuaBPMan_>So basically guix containers just use the host internet at the moment. And communication between the host and remote server and container and remote server are not seperate. <davexunit>they use a network namespace, which gives them no network access accept to their own loopback device. <davexunit>things would break if they had access to the host network ***boo is now known as Guest55170
<Guest55170>It works .. finally :) ! I like it quite a lot .... I've got a problem that i couldn't find a solution for, though. Perhaps someone in here can help ? I've got a few things that need to be executed when starting X/slim (i.e. my weird keyboard layout) but .xinitrc and .xserverrc gets ignored; both /root and /home .. how could I fix that ? I've to source it every time I login and cant use my keyboard to type in my username :( <Guest55170>i was thinking about starting with a bare bone setup and do old school startx without a drm ... but maybe there is a better way ***Guest55170 is now known as muck
<muck>Maybe I need to be more specific. How would you guys auto-run setxkbmap && xmodmap when X starts in a standard guixsd desktop setup ? <Petter>muck: there's also help-guix@gnu.org if you can't the help you want here and now. <myglc2>Anyone have a sample dovecot-service config that works? <joshuaBPMan_>someone asked on here a bit ago about changing keyboard layout via X. <muck>joshuaBPMan_, unfortunately yenda's configs only change console drivers; Petter, thx i'll try that <bavier>oh, ruby-puma FTBFS for me, even with the current boost <bavier>I wonder why it builds fine on hydra... <bavier>yeah, some non-determinism in the test suite I think <bavier>it built successfully on about the 7th try <jmd>Why is it called the USB installer? Can it not work from other devices? <bavier>jmd: I've not heard of anyone trying anything else <bavier>I suspect it wouldn't work on optical media <catern>davexunit: why would guix be developing all this container functionality? isn't there some other project that guix could piggyback on? <jmd>What about a plain hard disk? <jmd>And why not optical media? <jmd>Actually I have got a USB connected DVD reader. Will it work with that? <joshuaBPMan_>I just tried guix system reconfigure and I'm getting an error <joshuaBPMan_>guix system: error: symlink: File exists: "/var/guix/profiles/system-2-link" <joshuaBPMan_>I don't think that it reconfigured correctly. How can I fix this? <jmd>ACTION tries rebooting the "USB" installer from a SSD. <davexunit>catern: having a Scheme interface to the Linux namespace API is very powerful. <davexunit>using some other shell tool couldn't compare. <davexunit>we have a procedure named 'call-with-container' that will run an arbitrary Scheme procedure within a container process. <davexunit>and we use that to implement 'guix environment --container' and GuixSD containers. we have plans to use it for more things. <davexunit>most other abstractions on top of Linux namespaces have their own opinions and constraints and it didn't make sense to use those. <jmd>So it would seem that the name "USB" installer is misleading. <jmd>The next question that arises is, Is it possible to install onto the same disk that the installer is running from? <muck>i dont think the device is actually mounted, is it ? <jmd>Well let's give it a go anyway ... <jmd>I don't understand what I am supposed to put in the "device" and "title" fields ot config.scm <mark_weaver>jmd: the 'title' field is poorly named. its value determines how to interpret the 'device' field: whether it is to be interpreted as a raw device (e.g. /dev/sda1) or a label or a UUID. <jmd>So do I have to create the target filesystem myself? <mark_weaver>did you read the OS installation section of the manual? <jmd>ACTION reminds himself to configure his irc client to automatically append the words "yes I have read the manual" to each post. <jmd>The install image doesn't have the necessary entries in /dev <jmd>I can't create the filesystem <mark_weaver>is there a reason you're not using it on a USB device, as was intended? <mark_weaver>if your computer's BIOS won't boot it, you should be able to boot it from an existing GRUB install <jmd>Yes. That's why I can't boot it. GRUB is kindof touchy on this machine. <mark_weaver>well, GuixSD uses GRUB, so if GRUB doesn't work on your machine, that's a problem. what do you mean by "kindof touchy"? <jmd>Well more specifically grub is ok. But the screen doesn't get initialised until linux boots, so with grub i'm working blind. <mark_weaver>grub supports a serial console as well. could you use that? <jmd>That was what I another idea I had, it this approach didn't work out. <mark_weaver>anyway, another option, and maybe the one you'll need to use, is to install a different distro on another partition, install Guix on it (preferably using the binary installer method), and then run "guix system init" to install GuixSD without the USB installer. <mark_weaver>you could install this temporary distro on a partition that will later become the swap partition <mark_weaver>or put it at the end of the disk, and resize the root partition to fill that space later <jmd>That is also an option. Thanks for the suggestion. <mark_weaver>(resize2fs can do a live resize to a larger partition while the filesystem is mounted) <jmd>I think this way might work too. <mark_weaver>although the lack of usable GRUB may be an issue later, because in GuixSD we can afford to be less careful about making sure the system remains bootable, thanks to the fact that our GRUB menu allows you to easily boot into an earlier working system. <mark_weaver>the only component we need to be very careful not to break is GRUB itself. <jmd>yes. It might be a problem. You are right. <mark_weaver>but in practice this issue is rare, so if you can use a serial console, even if it's inconvenient, that would probably be good enough. <mark_weaver>out of curiosity, what kind of hardware is this that GRUB doesn't support video initialization for? <mark_weaver>ah, running Libreboot with one of the larger displays? <jmd>how do I read the label of a filesystem? <jmd>specing: What do you recommend? <jmd>So how long does guix system init take? <mark_weaver>it depends on your OS configuration and your machine <mark_weaver>GuixSD has primarily been tested with ext2/3/4 root filesystems. it would be good to make sure other root filesystem types are supported, but I don't know what the current status is. <jmd>Would it be a good time to make a cup of tea? <mark_weaver>yes. I don't remember, it's been at least 2 years since I ran "guix system init" <mark_weaver>I'm fairly sure that GuixSD's initrd doesn't support those yet <ng0>would be nice if we can get arm support :) the libretea card / laptop looks nice <davexunit>ARM support for GuixSD will happen. we've got several people working on it from what I can see on the mailing list. <specing>ZFS doesen't have problematic licensing <mark_weaver>specing: iirc, its license was deliberately chosen to be incompatible with the GNU GPL <specing>you just ship source package that are built on end-user's machines <davexunit>the combination of ZFS and Linux has problematic licensing. <specing>so everyone is violating CDDL personally <davexunit>specing: does that strategy not sound like a workaround for a problem? <specing>but I use btrfs everywhere atm because it has superior dedup <mark_weaver>it would be good to support btrfs fully, but I don't know what the current status is. <jmd>I thought zfs had been obsolete for about 25 years. <mark_weaver>I'm personally very interested in btrfs, but have never quite reached sufficient confidence that it's reliable enough yet. <jmd>I dunno. It's just that I haven't heard of anyone using it for such a long time. <davexunit>jmd: I think a lot of the reason it isn't more widely used is social/political rather than technical <specing>I'm pretty certain that btrfs was meant as a replacement for ZFS <ng0>btrfs made my smartphone die.. but that was running an old kernel with bad btrfs support. <ng0>and one time a server image. but other than that btrfs is good :) <ng0>i used xfs most of the time, but with guixsd there's just ext* support.. or did this change recently? <specing>btrfs at least will tell you when files are lost <specing>you can't appriciate checksumming until you have to match sector errors in dmesg with ext* inodes <efraim>i think there's some old bug reports from people putting the store on btrfs <specing>with BTRFS you get exact file name printed in log <specing>what good are backups if you don't know when/what to restore? <jmd>guix system init failed due to a corrupt download. How do I restart? <roptat>is there a way to create a network namespace with scheme (or guix)? <davexunit>roptat: see call-with-container in (gnu build linux-container) <jmd>davexunit: So there are guile bindings for lxc ? <davexunit>guix has an interface to the 'clone' system call that allows the creation of a "container" <davexunit>lxc is a separate abstraction on top of the same interface <specing>davexunit: are there templates for guixSD? <davexunit>specing: we have some example configuration files in the gnu/system/examples directory <specing>davexunit: I don't have guixSD yet, so I'm looking at trying it out in LXC <OrangeShark>davexunit: he is asking about templates for LXC of GuixSD <davexunit>oh, well "template" is a pretty vague term on its own <specing>that takes a distro rootfs and prepares it to run in a restricted environment of LXC <OrangeShark>specing: is there any documentation on creating those? <specing>meaning...removes unneccessary init scripts, creates /dev/node bindings, disables unneded terminals in inittab <OrangeShark>what might be interesting is to be able to have guix produce a rootfs for a container <roptat>davexunit, for what I see, call-with-container only either copy no network, or bind /sys which brings default namespace to the container <roptat>what I'm looking for is an equivalent of "ip netns add something" <davexunit>the question you asked was for a network namespace, which call-with-container can create. <davexunit>making virtualized networking devices is a different topic <roptat>ok, so I'll start by trying to implement it, then, thanks :) <davexunit>(call-with-container '(...) (lambda () ...) #:namespaces '(user net)) <davexunit>creates a container with a new network namespace <davexunit>a new net namespace by default only has a loopback device <davexunit>creating virtualized network devices is quite complicated <davexunit>so we could adapt that code, write the necessary FFI bindings for the system calls, etc. <specing>note: when creating a template try to use commonly available tools so that people don't have to install anything obscure <specing>I could have written lxc-gentoo in Ada and everyone would be screaming in pain <roptat>ok, I think this is how it done currently: if you don't give --network, it will create a container with all namespaces, including 'net, which creates a new namespace with no device, so no network connectivity. If you give --network, it will actually remove the 'net namespace, so that you can use the hardware directly in the container <jmd>Is there a way I can rename partions? <davexunit>loopback is available in the network namespace, so you could run daemons within the container, but they won't be able to talk to anything outside of the container. <joshuaBPMan_>Hello, I am trying to run guix system reconfigure. But I get this error: <joshuaBPMan_>guix system: error: symlink: File exists: "/var/guix/profiles/system-2-link" <enderby>hi all, i'm getting "warning: failed to install locale: Invalid argument" on all packages i try to install. anyone know what's wrong? <bavier>enderby: are you running Guix on top of another distro? <enderby>bavier: sort of, maybe not close enough though. I'd just c/p'd into terminal. <mark_weaver>specing: the approach of "remov[ing] unneccessary init scripts, creat[ing] /dev/node bindings, disabl[ing] unneded terminals in inittab" won't work for Guix, because those things are in an immutable store. For Guix, the approach will need to be to create the system from the beginning to work within LXC.