<Acou_Bass>im quite happy with the guix default behaviour, i just thought id point it out that nix does it that way :P <mark_weaver>okay. that is indeed a surprising difference, thanks for pointing it out <kori>mark_weaver: there, right channel <ng0>ACTION undusted an awesome-wm wip <kori>when should guix system reconfigure be run? <kori>whenever I change config.scm? <kori>for example, I installed some packages via guix package -i <kori>now I'm adding them to config.scm <kori>and I just ran guix system reconfigure <Acou_Bass>why are you adding those packages to config.scm? <Acou_Bass>but yeah, whenever youre done editing config.scm you should reconfigure :D <kori>ArneBab: ...I'm not sure myself <kori>I don't know the importance of config.scm <Acou_Bass>putting packages in config.scm is only really necessary for certain things you expect to be system-wide <Acou_Bass>installing them by package -i installs them just fine as your user <kori>Acou_Bass: how can I trigger a reinstall of packages that can take advantages of other packages? <kori>not sure how to explain this <kori>Acou_Bass: erm, let's suppose program foo requires libx to run, but liby is optional, and if you install program foo, it pulls libx but not liby <ng0>packages get updated when there are updates.. i don't know what you try to achieve <kori>if you install liby later on, program foo can't see liby, but if I reinstall foo, it can now see liby, so it has those features <kori>I'm not sure what the correct terminology is <Acou_Bass>i dont really think it needs to be done, i dont see why program foo wouldnt see liby after liby is installed <kori>Acou_Bass: I'm not sure if the packages weren't installed or not <kori>I'm not exactly sure how guix -works- haha <ng0>different than debian or other distros. <ng0>too tired to explain though <adfeno>kori: I think you just have to free all instances of foo from the memory. <kori>its the same thing, really <kori>I'm asking because I'm trying to compile a program <kori>I have both libx11, libxft, libconfig, libfreetype installed <kori>and even after recompiling, this program stil says "not found" <adfeno>Check if: libx11 provides "libX11.so.6"; libxft, "libXft.so.2"; libconfig, "libfontconfig.so.1" (???); libfreetype, "libfreetype.so.6". <kori>this is the program in question as installed by guix <ng0>i think you are trying it the wrong way if oyu are just using it. let me explain what I (will) do <ng0>in case you are developing for it, this does not apply <kori>ng0: I'm just going to use it, yeah <ng0>you can take the st package already in guix, inherit it in a new package (or a package which overrides it (like setting this: export GUIX_PACKAGE_PATH=/home/ng0/src/n0.is/my-guix/ to get GUIX_PACKAGE_PATH in your PATH , where the folder has a substructure of gnu/packages/) and i nthe new / inherited st package you change the variables and/or apply patches. once I have this ready (part of us moving <ng0>youbroketheinternet-overlay to a guix repo), I can point you to a document and (coincidentally) an st.scm <ng0>*an document explaining this. sorry ,forgot this part <Acou_Bass>hmm folks, just a quickie problem (i hope), getting an error trying to do my reconfigure... xD <Acou_Bass>slightly dumb question, are there any pastebin-esque services i can use to dump this error log? all the ones ive tried arent working in GNU icecat hehe <Acou_Bass>can anyone help me at all with this error? seems really weird to me, xD <Acou_Bass>figured it out, turns out /dev/sda1 (ie. my swap partition) has disappeared <Acou_Bass> yepp as i suspected, GNOME runs far too slow on my laptop ;D oh well, back to xfce/E <ng0>could be even just the gpu reuiring a binary blob. I am using an older nvidia card which is faster than the ati cards I used before. <kori>I have 54 guix generations within the first 10 hours of me using guix <kori>I'm doing it wrong, ain't I <lfam>Nothing wrong with experimenting <kori>okay I want to start again <lfam>Wait, do you mean Guix or GuixSD? <lfam>You might be doing it wrong if you mean Guix ;) <kori>and I have 54 guix generations <lfam>Profile generations or system generations? <kori>I only have one system generation <lfam>Don't use `guix package -i` and `guix package -r` to test packages out. It litters your profile history (as you noticed). Try `guix environment --ad-hoc` <lfam>It puts the package in your environment without creating a profile generation. So, you will be able to `guix gc` and it will reclaim the space you used for the experiment. Else, you have to manually remove old profiles <lfam>I use it when testing packages from the mailing list, or if I know I will only be using something once. <kori>if I want to get a "clean" system <kori>do I remove ~/.guix-profile and guix gc? <lfam>What do you mean by clean? <kori>as if I had just installed guixsd <kori>...with the lightweight-desktop.scm files <lfam>Just remove everything from your profile <kori>lfam: my store has 5000 files and I'm not sure that's a thing haha <lfam>If a package is not in your profile, it's almost impossible to use it by accident. You'd have to guess a sha256 hash in order to run it <lfam>So, it's enough to have an empty profile <kori>guix is fun and there's a lot to learn <kori>I'm simultaneously learning guix and emacs <kori>nevermind the progress I already made w/ guile <lfam>I should have taken that approach (Guix and Emacs) <lfam>Yes, with the paredit Vim plugin. It's better than nothing but I can tell that the Emacs users have really got something good going on <lfam>I recommend using paredit if you are not <kori>oh I was using paredit on vim <kori>I haven't got around to a lot of editing on emacs yet <kori>still learning the ropes <lfam>So you got your system to boot? What was wrong? <kori>which is scary considering one the reasons I moved to guixsd was the determinism and all that <kori>but I guess this will remain a non-determined question <lfam>There are sources of non-determinism that we can't eliminate, and others that we can eliminate but have not so far. <lfam>For example, some build processes fail or succeed depending on how loaded my system is <kori>I booted into my other system <kori>I need to read more documentation <kori>my system works... kinda <kori>but I need to start again <kori>davexunit: did you have to do anything special to get gnome-tweak-tool working <ecraven>is there any reason not to do the following: add a field "authorized-keys" to user-account, list of strings of ssh/lsh keys, and automatically register these (and *only* these) with lsh-authorize? <janneke>kori: i assume it does not work for you, what do you observe? <janneke>try running it from a console and see if there is an error message <rodion>what is the point of the #t added at the end of the #:builder argument of the trivial-build-system? <rodion>because the return value of the function above (chmod) is unpecified I guess, got it. <rodion>it seems that my geiser is somehow linked with a standard geiser repl <rodion>that seems to have all modules already loaded <rodion>it goes into the Geiser repl, not into the Guix repl <rodion>all modules are not loaded in Guix REPL <rodion>and it is aimed at interactive Guix commands only <rodion>I guess Guile REPL is of development and interaction with source code <ng0_>tjere's something I package right now, a set of perl tools and one of them requires (optionally) a binary from 1996 (rxaudio). Should I follow the authors recommendation and just skip installing psycmp3, or should I install all of it and people handle it on their own? It does not recommend or advocate its use, just when you run psycmp3 it does point out a perl module, not the rxaudio binary. <ng0_>imo I have no problem packaging it all <ng0_>but I can see bugreports <ng0_>so this shouzld maybe yjust be mentioned in the description <ng0_>would (license (list gpl2+ (package-license perl))) be correct for this dual licensed (gpl2+ artistic) software work, or would this be (license (list gpl2+ artistic2.0)) correct or equivalent? <emyles>Is there a keychain for lsh? I'm trying to setup offloading... <emyles>Oh, says in the docs that the key shouldn't be password protected. <ng0>the `guix import cpan` needs perl to be in PATH? <ng0>guess I'll have only the ebuild to compare than and check this non CPAN package. <cbaines>Hello, I'm trying to setup build offloading, from my GuixSD machine, to a Debian machine (with Guix installed). I've got stuck convincing lsh and OpenSSH to cooperate, and was wondering if anyone has any tips? <cbaines>lsh just says "Protocol error: Algorithm negotiation failed." <cbaines>I've attempted to check if the algorithms it says its trying to use are supported and enabled on the remote host, and as far as I can tell they appear to be... <ng0>i have as a temporary workaround moved the machine with lsh daemon running in the client config over the global set ciphers in .ssh/config, so that the host is not checked <ng0>this is no permanet solution for me, as soon as I can I'll do something for openssh on guix. <cbaines>Found a reference to passing -c aes256-ctr on the lsh-bugs mailing list <ng0>lsh looks like it can only do rsa..? ed25519 is the reason why I need openssh <ng0>this and passworded key <ng0>though the new model I use is not stuck to passworded key but other limitations of guixsd, waiting for the next coreupdate to fix this <emyles>cbaines: did you have to convert the client's lsh key to ssh format? <cbaines>I guess that this still won't work for build offloading yet, as Guix does not know to pass that option <cbaines>Does anyone know if there is a way to tell Guix to? I'll also see if I can enable something on the server side to make things work. <emyles>Don't know, I'm going to use lshd on the server for now to keep it simple. <ng0>write a guix service for openssh sshd. ? that's how I assume I will solve it, but maybe offloading depends on lsh, which would be a bit inflexible. <ng0>but you said it runs debian <ng0>so maybe adjust the ciphers of the sshd there <civodul>cbaines: re lsh, try adding (ssh-options '("-c" "aes256-ctr")) to your 'build-machine' declaration <civodul>that'll force lsh to use the right cipher suites <civodul>hopefully we'll move to guile-ssh Real Soon <civodul>it's compatible with the OpenSSH client <ng0>civodul: is it bound to use lsh? could it use the openssh sshd? <civodul>ng0: the offload thing only needs an SSH client, not a server <OriansJ>Ah, shit... The byte packing instructions blew the memory budget >.< my VM will not fit in 64KB, it currently stands at 68KB :( <ng0>define-public is the value which can be used to address a function/package/service, but the (name) inside it can be anything, right? so if I package perlpsyc, which (outdated there) on CPAN is Net::PSYC, todays source names it perlpsyc, I call the define-public perl-net-psyc and give it an internal name of perlpsyc, that still works, right? <ng0>eh.. some words wrong there, but you get what I'm trying to ask <ng0>right, i should read the manual more often <ng0>why don't we use the maintainers()? to keep it open for anyone and everyone to contribute and not just *poke person* to update? <civodul>we realized it may be best to keep packages collectively maintained <ng0>i can agree with that. and not have bureaucratic acts of proving you know the system (like in gentoo) to contribute <OriansJ>well the reason that inevitablty occurs is because you need some mechanism to prevent just a random third party from pushing a bad thing to all the users <cbaines>civodul, thanks for the ssh-options tip :) <ng0>as long as people with push access are trustworthy and little in numbers it is not needed <OriansJ>Then the question is how do you plan on dealing with it when the number of guix developers scale? <ng0> https://www.gentoo.org/get-involved/become-developer/ I've been developing for 1.5-2 years outside of gentoo before I thought of applying for developer, got the feedback about the packages I am/was trying to get into portage that they are very good, but now I think guix is the most logic choice and rather get my guix + guile packages into portage and move on. <OriansJ>Ultimately chains and trees of trust must be created and collective action performed <OriansJ>The only problem is that we often try to create technical solutions to social problems <ng0>I've used some of the gentoo structure before for a project, and I've talked and learned about trust models with some people for a while.. the solution is not on the technical side <ng0>but I can explain the model once it comes to it <ng0>I think given the geolocation of most developers today what I think of is even highly applicable. <ng0>with SecuShare and outside of it (pirate party italy), lynX came up with the convivenza and for SecuShare some other model which I can't recall right now, I think I'll try to put an additional usecase/discussion for developer communities in the repository <OriansJ>ng0: I think having heavy weight processes like debian might actually end up as useful, since they generally will only be used as a last resort. <ng0>I will think some more about what I wrote in the last sentence, translate the convivenza article and put my thoughts into a web log post. <ng0>this does not exclude the what you wrote, but can be an addition. <ng0>i really need to fix guix on gentoo.. the font st falls back to is so bad that n looks like d and I had methon instead of method and corrected 2 other things before I saw this in the output <OriansJ>ng0: Have you ever seen the series All watched over by Machines of loving Grace? <OriansJ>It had an interesting segment on the hippy Communes and why they failed. <ng0>okay, it's even mentioned there. posted before I read it <OriansJ>kristofer: It didn't make the claim that they all failed, but rather pointed out some properties that were universal of those that did fail <ng0>we'll start a commune in 5+ years, but not as "hippy" as older communes here in this country. <kristofer>modren hippies are more like nomadic capitalists than libre culture enthusiasts <ng0>it will be more a collective of lgbtqi anarchists and other political lefts where some have enough money to escape the renting system and buy a house and land where additional self-sustaining work can be executed :) <ng0>and based on the foundation of en e.V. / associazione cultural or similar. <kristofer>anyway, it's generally a theme in our meetings to acquire land and "build the new world in the shell of the old" <ng0>ahh iww.. sorry, it's very rare around here <ng0>i knew the word, but I rarely ave contact with people in it <kristofer>it's a very philosophically motivated crew of mostly anarcho-syndicalists <OriansJ>kristofer: Just remember you all have different meanings when you think of a new and better way of doing things <ng0>iww isn't big in germany. it's even surprising that we have this other org around here.. and sad and understandable, given the historical reasons <kristofer>personally I feel like intentional communities are disenchanted <kristofer>because they isolate themselves from the world, so real lasting change will never happen that way <kristofer>if anarchists focus on developing cooperative (worker-owned) business that would be more effective <ng0>I rather contribute to dialogue outside than just inside some "communities" as I have gathered enough about certain topics and how people act and behave in them. <ng0>so we have some long running cooperatives here, which is good. and we have a business form based on it which people often forget <kristofer>ng0, isn't the freetown christiana in germany? or netherlands? <ng0>I'm just tired of reminding people that anarchism works, and do not work in the local groups, I fix issues on another level, at least at the moment. <OriansJ>I am always reminded the primary reason that the GPL achieved so much was because it managed to get people who hated each other to work in a common direction where they agreed <ng0>kristofer: no idea.. there are some bigger communes here, and one entire village. <janneke>kristofer: christiana is "in" denmark <ng0>also a cooperative in Hamburg where you can buy coffee from zapatista and other global communities .. so stuff works, people just forget about it :) <janneke>i think the experiment pretty much failed <OriansJ>janneke: I think the experiment produced useful information about human nature. <janneke>it didn't thrive and produce offspring all over the world, is what i mean <ng0>there's no failure in failure, just learning from mistakes <kristofer>the anarchist movement is fragmented, that oesn't help it's adoption <kristofer>here in the states the anarcho-capitalists are more common the leftists I'd guess <OriansJ>I find the lesson about human shame, rather interesting. It turns out to be far more effective to shame the rich about the state of poverty around them than to try to convince them to improve the equality of the system. <OriansJ>kristofer: Just because the lesson was learned, does not mean it has been universally applied yet. <kristofer>there's a tendency toward psychopathy among the super-rich <OriansJ>which isn't actually an issue, but rather a feature. <ng0>everbody has their perception of things based on experiences and input. I've come to another conclusion based on primary literature/schools I've read on how anarchism could be defined, but there's also the added state propaganda going on for 200+ years of anarchism==chaos etc.. i mean i don't want to offtopic this too much, but existence of federation of anarchist etc is a good thing. /me out <kristofer>OriansJ, I mean to imply that psychopaths may not be affected by public shaming in quite the same way the general populace would <kristofer>ng0, agreed! there's a lot of common ground amongst anarchist/communist/libertarian factions <OriansJ>kristofer: very true but they are goal oriented and therefor very easy to direct given a competitive environment. <rekado_>trying to build faust2, but it fails at the final stage because our llvm needs to be built with "-DLLVM_REQUIRES_RTTI=1" <OriansJ>All too often people hate goverment as bad, but fail to actually understand why it exists and what mechanisms actually exist already to start fixing its problems. <rekado_>is this something that can be enabled for our llvm package, or should I add a variant? <rekado_>tried to build a variant like this just now, but ran out of space. Building llvm takes a very long time and more than 7GB on my machine. <ng0>OriansJ: I have some further opinions on that, and ideas which recently got more input on my side, but I don't want to go on with offtopic talk here. on the topic, people might be curious in the talk given at squatconf about anarcho-capitalism ("how to destroy a community"something something forgot the title) this year. <OriansJ>ng0: I'll check that out, thanks for the link <ng0>it maybe even has a .onion, forgot if I did move that video to the onion server. <ng0>anyway back to working :) <ng0>(one more offtopic: :O Agalloch disbanded last month) <ng0>is someone around with a bit knowledge in perl? I want to understand the difference/importace of /site_perl/ vs /vendor_perl/ before I finalize this package <yoosty>and while I'm no Perl guru, that aligns with what I've seen in the wild <ng0>okay, thanks :) I got our ebuild, and am chatting with the dev, but our ebuild excludes some files, and my guix package is not fully functional yet. <ng0>so I'd say I use vendor as it is packaged. <ng0>what we have in the ebuild by the dev is: dobin bin/* ; insinto /usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl; doins -r lib/perl5/* ; dodoc -r README TODO cgi contrib hooks .... I'd say it's easier than what I have now. <ng0>I mean it is not so hard to fix what I have now :) <ng0>this brings in some example scripts, hooks, etc which may only servce as examples (the perl shebang has an added -I/path/to/other/include), so like 3-4 directories full of examples. would "share/doc/" name "/`the-dirs`/" work for guix? <kori>janneke: from a console it doesn't even start <kori>maybe gnome exports some env vars that gnome-tweak-tool needs to start <janneke>...but if it starts from the gnome shell, your terminal should also have those vars no? <kori>yeah I'm thoroughly confused <janneke>kori: try: head $(which gnome-tweak-tool) <janneke>it's a wrapper around .gnome-tweak-tool-real, which is a python script <kori>janneke: once I get home I will :D <kori>it shouldn't take too long <kristofer>is there an example package that uses the cmake-build-system? <ng0>egrep -nr "cmake-build-system" gnu/packages/* :) <ng0>i just got an error with mpv, with an video:mpeg4 audio:mp3 file.... mpv: pushbuf.c:238: pushbuf_krel: Assertion `bkref' failed. Aborted <janneke>any hints for getting a texlive binary download? <paroneayea>ACTION is reading "I am a Strange Loop" right now, appreciates the recursion <janneke>bothe version-0.10.0 and current master say failed: 410: "Gone" ***jamesrichardson is now known as james
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<efraim>I'm not sure what command you're trying to run, but for me its often `guix package --fallback -u' to get around texlive <janneke>i'm running guix package -p ~/.config/guix/tex -i texlive <janneke>i was a bit hesitant about --fallback, let me try that <ng0>so (arguments `(#:phases (modify-phases %standard-phases (replace 'install (lambda* (#:key outputs #:allow-other-keys) (copy-recursively (list "thing" "thing2" "thung3") (string-append (assoc-ref outputs "out") "/share/doc/perl-net-psyc/")) and the added parantheses and #t bla I got this all covered, is obviously a wrong list. do I have to add a ' infront of the list? <ng0>can't paste the function easily as I'm working in the 4000 lines perl.scm <ng0>I also have multiple (copy-recursively) in the package, but I'll fix that before sending out the patch. <rekado_>ng0: do you understand quoting? What makes you think you need a quote there? <rekado_>Not sure copy-recursively actually takes a list. <ng0>I don't fully understand it yet, but this one piece fails. <ng0>i have searched and found no other package with a list <kristofer>I'm trying to build a package that depends on libboost_filesystem.so. I have boost as an input and it builds fine, but during the `validate-runpath' phase it fails with error: depends on 'libboost_filesystem', which cannot be found in RUNPATH <ng0>oh i think I'm dong it wrong.. when do I use install-file ? my install phase is copying files and folders selectively <civodul>kristofer: can you show the link command line of the file for which you get this error? <ng0>install-file for one file, tje other for many. <kristofer>civodul, I'm trying to package opencog-atomspace <ng0>gnuzilla.scm to the rescue. thanks for the help, rekado_ <kristofer>civodul, I'm not sure I follow you, link command line? <ng0>I think I'm a bit out of practice, but it comes back. some months of ebuilds and no guix. <ng0>but I'll finish this today. <civodul>kristofer: the RUNPATH error you get mentions a file name at the beginning of the line, right? <civodul>the "link command line" for that file is the line like "gcc -shared -o libsomething.so ...", where libsomething.so is the file of interested <civodul>right, so what the command line that looks like "gcc -shared -o libcogutil.so ..."? <kristofer>it doesn't explicitly list the paths of libboost* <kori>janneke: alright I"m home <kristofer>just -lboost_filesystem -lboost_system -lboost_regex, etc <janneke>kori: can you see if you can get error message in your terminal <kori>I installed libsoup and that error disappeared and another one popped up <kori>relating to GnomeDesktop namespace not being available <kori>I'm installing gnome-desktop right now <kori>also, how do I fix collision errors <kori>yep okay I installed gnome-desktop and gnome-tweak-tool opened fine <janneke>what is weird is that I don't have share/gir-1.0/Soup-2.4.gir in my .profile... <kori>but the thing is, I can't change any themes <kori>I do have arc-theme installed <kori>I'm going to get a screenshot, 1 sec <civodul>kristofer: normally ld-wrapper takes care of adding the right -Wl,-rpath flags here, unless libboost_filesystem.so could not be found <janneke>ACTION is not much of a themer, uses gnome-tweak-tool solely for workspace-grid ;-) <kristofer>civodul, it appears libboost cannot be found :-/ <kori>I -should- be able to click those buttons <kori>also, my icecat didn't get the gnome shell integration extension <kori>which is pretty fundamental <kori>epiphany can't detect that a gnome session is running too <janneke>kori: how do i install a theme to test these buttons? <kori>janneke: even if you do not have a theme installed <kori>but you can install arc-theme directly from guix <ngz>Hello. I have some warnings like the following "Locale not supported by C library". And Guix applications do not use the correct locale. I guess I'm missing something obvious, but what should I do to have get the right locale for Guix applications? <ngz>I installed glibc-locales and have "export GUIX_LOCPATH=$HOME/.guix-profile/lib/locale" in ~/.profile <janneke>hmm, i suspect something with all the different gschemas.compiled files <kristofer>civodul, is it possible that boost should be a propagated-input? <kori>davexunit has everything working <civodul>kristofer: i don't think so; can you check the 'environment-variables' file in the failed build tree, and make sure libboost_filesystem is among the entries in LIBRARY_PATH? <janneke>kori that's good news, iwbn to get some of davexunit's magic then <kristofer>civodul, the path to boost-1.60.0/lib is listed in LIBRARY_PATH <kristofer>and all the libboost_xxx are in the proper location :) <civodul>kristofer: the best thing to do is to go into the failed build tree, do "source environment-variables; export GUIX_LD_WRAPPER_DEBUG=yes", and then redo the "c++ ..." link command <civodul>that will allow you to see which -Wl,-rpath flags are added <lfam>I didn't even realize it was possible to `rm -rf` things in /gnu/store. I thought it was mounted in some way that even root could not do that <lfam>But I guess not, based on the ML discussion <kristofer>civodul, is it ideal to do that inside a guix environment? <kori>maybe I'll move to xfce and just use that instead ***kete_ is now known as kete`
<ng0>if I use gnu-build-system instead of perl-build-system, will it still fix the perl related things like perl shebang? <ng0>the package installs now and binaries work, but they can't locate the .pm files <ng0>so I'm thinking I might be doing something wrong, and use another build system <ng0>but the perl package itself has a section which I might try, where the search path is included <emyles>Trying to offload a build, I think I have GUILE_LOAD_PATH set properly: <emyles>lsh -l myles MYSERVER.com echo \\$GUILE_LOAD_PATH <emyles>/home/myles/.guix-profile/share/emacs/site-lisp/ <emyles>but I get a traceback running the recommended <emyles>lsh build-machine guile -c "'(use-modules (guix config))'" <emyles>ending in "ERROR: no code for module (guix config)". <civodul>emyles: that means that GUILE_LOAD_PATH does not contain the directory where the Guix modules live <emyles>Is this not the guix module?: /home/myles/.guix-profile/share/emacs/site-lisp/guix-config.el <civodul>Guile modules are in share/guile/site/2.0 or similar 
