<lfam>Never copy and paste command lines from the net! :) <lfam>There are so many classic games, and only so many years :) <suitsmeveryfine>In OpenTTD you begin in 1950 and you can continue far into the future. <lfam>I began in 1986, so I saved even more time ;) <lfam>I've reconfigured my GNOME system with paroneayea's xscreensaver. Anybody know how to invoke it on GNOME? Or, how to invoke any screen locker on GNOME? <lfam>Hm, another environment I'm totally unfamiliar with ;) <lfam>Yeah, when I discovered tiling window managers I was very glad I'd never again need to fiddle with icon and window placement <lfam>Check the options to `guix graph`. The default graph is not very complete. You can really overwhelm yourself with the complexity of software systems with some of those options <lfam>Okay, I'll give it a try <lfam>On XFCE, how do I invoke a screen locker? <mthl>lfam: check xscreensaver-command man page <sippican>greetings all. Longtime Open *nix, pondering going free but wondering if graphic performance is still going to be a significant trade-off. Son games on the machine. Not happy with the blobberfest that is OpenSuse, even the kernel/tcp tuning/timeouts were utterly ridiculous,. <mthl>lfam: xscreensaver commands are not bound to any desktop environment interface. <lfam>mthl: Thanks for the advice <Jookia>Does guix lint check code formatting? <mthl>Jookia: it checks about tabs but not the number of spaces <suitsmeveryfine>Jookia: I suggest that you edit in Emacs to get indentation and all that right <lfam>I use Vim with the paredit plugin <lfam>It's another option, although it's probably not as good as the functionality in Emacs <Jookia>do i have to use emacs to work on guix? <suitsmeveryfine>In Emacs I press C-M-a + C-M-q and the correct indentation is automatically set. <mthl>Jookia: no you don't, but before submitting a patch launching emacs for fixing the indentation could help you and the reviewers <Jookia>mthl: that's okay, i don't plan on submitting patches <mthl>Jookia: So no need to use it then <suitsmeveryfine>Jookia: or you can send the patch to somebody who pastes it in Emacs for you :) <reepca>So I'm getting the error "error: cannot bind to socket `/var/guix/daemon-socket/socket': Address already in use" when trying to run guix-daemon on Ubuntu 15.10, and ps aux | grep "guix" yields nothing except something I suspect is unrelated in ~/.guix/bin/ <reepca>And whatever currently is using it isn't talking to the guix client used via emacs ("connection refused") <lfam>reepca: I haven't seen a ~/.guix directory before. How did you install Guix? <reepca>errr my bad I meant .guix-profile <lfam>And what is returned by `ps aux | grep guix-daemon` <lfam>Also, how did you install Guix? <reepca>binary tarball I think, did it awhile ago, haven't used it too much since, trying to get it working now <lfam>Are you trying to start the daemon as an unprivileged user? I get that message when trying that. You should run it as root <reepca>sudo just says "guix-daemon: command not found" <reepca>but it finds it when I don't try it as root <lfam>For debugging purposes, try running it with the full path, as root: /var/guix/profiles/per-user/root/guix-profile/bin/guix-daemon <lfam>In general, `sudo foo` won't give you the same environment as when logging in as root. You'd need `sudo -i` to get the login shell. It's relevant because your $PATH should be set when logging in <lfam>By the way, it's a daemon, so expect it to do nothing when you run it <reepca>huh, alright. Well using the full path did the trick, thanks, successfully ran (guix-command "package" "--upgrade") :~) <reepca>Now I thought I remembered configuring it to start the daemon on startup, so next on my to-do list is figure out why that didn't happen / if I forgot to do it in the first place <lfam>Cool. Since you say you haven't used Guix in a while, be sure to update to the latest version. There are of course many security and bug fixes. <lfam>And remember that each user has their own version of Guix, so at the minimum you need to udpate with `guix pull` for both root and your regular user <lfam>reepca: I've filed a bug report regarding the misleading error message <reepca>Huh, okay, so I've got guix-daemon.service in /etc/systemd/system/ but it isn't getting run when I start up the system. Or at least, it hasn't in the past. <floating_dinghy>is recovering from "guix substitute: error: TLS error in procefure 'handshake': The TLS connection was non-properly terminated." by executing "guix system init /mnt/etc/config.scm /mnt" again ok? <iyzsong>yes, I think it's always safe to re-run any guix commands. <floating_dinghy>cool. I'm going through the install and this is the third time a download failed like that...I was worried it restarted the whole deployment again... <iyzsong>the deployment only occurs after download all the files (to store). but if you reboot, those files will be downloaded again. <floating_dinghy>aww... I did reboot once :/ but I had a different reason for that... I didn't label my partition while setting config.scm as "" thinking it would work using the /dev/sda1 device... well, it didn't find kernel. I didn't think it will redownload :/ <paroneayea>sneek: later tell lfam I tested xscreensaver with xfce <floating_dinghy>I should probably just have modified the grub config manually... but I thought the installer will use the packages... rats :D <floating_dinghy>is there a way to restart the process without redownloading ? for future mishaps... <iyzsong>floating_dinghy: um, you can modify the "root=.." argument in the grub menu (press 'e'). 'guix system reconfigure' is much easier than the 'system init' process we have currently. <iyzsong>I'm not sure if it's possible to avoid redownload. I think the state for packages avaliable are in an sqlite database, and it's fresh in the live usb... <floating_dinghy>what are the ram constraints on the system btw? I tried nixos but saw the livecd with it's kde wm taking 1gb of ram... I'm messing around with a baytrail hdmi stick that came with 2gb so it's kinda tight on this little atom. <floating_dinghy>like, I understand there's a store database always running in the background? or was it kde alone taking 1gb? 0_o <iyzsong>it depends.. you can choice not to use heavy desktops. also nixos have cli only minimal install cd. I guess guix require more ram than nix, since it's a whole language vm (guile). but I think 256M is minimal. <floating_dinghy>good. I use i3 and vi (might move to zile... emacs a bit too much for me) so it's not a problem so long as the store overhead doesn't start swapping on the emmc. <lfam>reepca: Regarding starting the daemon at startup, did you do `systemctl enable guix-daemon`? That's how you register services to run at boot on systemd-based systems <sneek>Welcome back lfam, you have 1 message. <sneek>lfam, paroneayea says: I tested xscreensaver with xfce <lfam>reepca: The output of `systemctl status guix-daemon` should have useful info in the "Loaded:" line <reepca>lfam: Oh, okay, thanks. Did it and systemctl now says it is enabled. ***anon is now known as Guest70097
<rekado>davexunit: you may have to specify an elements path. <rekado>I have a project file containing "elements-dir lib/footprints" with custom footprints. <rekado>you may also need to specify the default footprint directory with "-d ~/.guix-profile/share/pcb/newlib" or similar <rekado>we should patch these tools to look at the correct paths by default. <lfam>Did anyone see my question in the btrfs-progs thread about updating util-linux? Should it be reverted (due to too many rebuilds — 729)? <lfam>Feel free to revert if necessary <ng0>what's the current dualboot status, has someone written about this somewhere? I plan on testing/investigating a system of cryptdisk section by key choice. <phant0mas>davexunit: did you have any progress with the avr toolchain? <davexunit>phant0mas: no I stopped when you told me to wait. <janneke>phant0mas: you saw my guile.exe link? could my mingw fixes be related? <phant0mas>it's similar problems, just different targets <janneke>i have cleaned-up a lot, just pushed to wip-hurd+mingw <jordila>video link or something is broken... :-( <ng0>how long does it normally take for someone on bug-womb to reply? I know womb is no focus project, but at least some "read it, will take time to reply" is great to see at least someone noticed it. <davexunit>last night I got some prototyping pcbs in the mail, the ones that just have a ton of holes, and soldered the ps2 analog sticks onto them with jumper wires to make them breadboard compatible. <phant0mas>and before building a avr binary export CROSS_CPATH=/home/manolis/.guix-profile/avr/include and export CROSS_LIBRARY_PATH=/home/manolis/.guix-profile/avr/lib/ <davexunit>phant0mas: oh damn I totally had those in an old avr-gcc recipe of mine :) <davexunit>phant0mas: do we still need the i686 libc input to avr-libc? <phant0mas>ACTION feels relieved that the avr toolchain works now <davexunit>phant0mas: any particular reason why you removed the --disable-libssp flag from the avr-gcc build? <phant0mas>davexunit rekado maybe we should add 'fix-genmultilib to one of the existing phases <phant0mas>because this problem exists in both the avr and arm-none toolchains <davexunit>phant0mas: yeah it could benefit all gcc cross compilers <davexunit>phant0mas: btw, instead of doing `(,@(foo)), you can just write foo <davexunit>in this case: (arguments (substitute-keyword-arguments ...)) <davexunit>it's like putting an equation into simplest terms :) <phant0mas>sometimes I think that the greek university system is really broken <phant0mas>I was never taught things that are supposed to be cs101 <htgoebel1>I have a source package, which contains two parts, eg. libblabla and libbarfoo. I want to build two independent packages but use the same source. How can I reuse the source declaration? <davexunit>htgoebel1: it's just an object like anything else. <htgoebel1>davexunit: Me scheme knowledge is still quite limited. I tried (define my-lalala-source (source ....)) and then (define-public libblabla (package ... (my-lalala-source) ...) <htgoebel1>devxunit: Thanks. It took me some tries to get the details right, but this did the trick. <davexunit>configure: error: C compiler cannot create executables <davexunit>phant0mas: yes, I am using pretty much the exact same thing <davexunit>I did a very small refactoring of the avr-gcc recipe <davexunit>I tried the build with and without the --disable-libssp flag, so that's not the problem. <davexunit>phant0mas: sorry, it's actually the i686 cross-libc that fails <htgoebel1>Has guile something like hashes or associative arrays? What I've found in the manual is terrible complicated. <ijp>there are hashtables, but the default api is more complicated than necessary <davexunit>mutable hash tables should almost certainly be avoided in Guix code. <ijp>but for future reference, the relevant manual section is 6.7.14 <optikalmouse>I've decided to force guix into our company. I had to create a VM + scripts to be able to setup and tie all our microservices together so we can have per-branch/per-fork environments to QA things easily <optikalmouse>and I need a web interface to manage the box so I'm going with Guile Scheme which opens up a nice path for guix ;) <vekth>by wish manual do i need to begining? Guix Manual or GuixSD Manual? <davexunit>to use Guix on your current GNU/Linux system, you do not need to read the GuixSD section <vekth>oh yeah. I didn't see that it was the same but different part ^^' <vekth>i want to install, (try to re-install), GuixSD <davexunit>then reading over the GuixSD section would be good <davexunit>some sections will be more immediately interesting than others <davexunit>for example, you don't need to know all the services to make a basic config to install <rekado>optikalmouse: cool. Do you plan on sharing the web interface with Guix upstream? <vekth>davexunit, okay. I will try to install it, boot on it and after finish to read the configuration file wiki : ) <davexunit>vekth: my recommendation to you is to use the most minimal configuration that could possibly work for you <davexunit>once you have the system up and running, it becomes very easy to experiment with changes <davexunit>because if a change goes wrong, you can just reboot the last known working config. a luxury you don't have when installing for the first time. <optikalmouse>rekado: the web interface is just for managing git repos and some database updates that are specific to our work environment, not really directly related to guix <vekth>Another question, i saw that lvm is not available for the installation process, but i saw the lvm package, i will be able to use my lvm partition after the installation? <optikalmouse>we're using docker everywhere and the complexity is kinda nuts with all the extra tooling surrounding docker <davexunit>ACTION watches work environment grow to be a gelatinous mass of a Docker, Chef, Semaphore, AWS scripts <vekth>somebody knows when we'll be able to install on a lvm device? <davexunit>it depends on when someone who is interested in this writes the code to do it. <vekth>i will maybe change my file-system scheme then : / <davexunit>I have seen numerous people talk about our lack of LVM support <vekth>well, it could be cool. 'Cause some people can be afraid about needed a bigger / partition than at the installation process. <davexunit>but does anyone want to step up and actually do it? <datagrok>davexunit: what's the current state? the patch posted to the discussion list mid-2015? <davexunit>I just want people to understand that they shouldn't wait around for something to happen. we need people to do things. <vekth>i don't think i have enough of knowledges to help, or even try, GuixSD : / <davexunit>I personally don't use LVM so it's not a feature I'm going to spend time on. <datagrok>davexunit: totally understand. i hope to contribute, but i'm still getting started with scheme. feels like a long way to go :) <ng0>davexunit: i agree with the last sentence. Part of why I am now officially stepping into gentoo packaging in addition to everything else i do.. nobody else does it. you have to when you want to see something get done. <davexunit>and we're here to help people along the way when they try to do something new. <ng0>today I ran a search on something cryptdisk related, a guide or experience/experiment, and even ahmia.fi or google or others found nothing.. so the internet told me again: just do it, document it and let others find it. <davexunit>I'm in completely unfamiliar territory with this AVR toolchain thing, but it wouldn't get done if I didn't try. <ng0>i had next to zero usable results and in addition I found a malware/virus/exploit download DB xD <janneke>why do i suddenly get guix/ui.scm:252:7: source expression failed to match any pattern in form (report-error (_ "failed to load '~a': ~a~%") file (strerror err)) <vekth>datagrok, it is a topic created one year ago? <datagrok>vekth: that conversation thread was started April 2015 but I don't know if there are other discussions that are older or more recent <datagrok>vekth: that particular link is where I'm starting, because it contains a patch that I can study <janneke>i'm using guile-next :-( i thought guix environment guix --ad-hoc emacs git installs guile-2.0? hmm <davexunit>janneke: guile-2.0 is part of that environment, yes. <davexunit>one possibility is ABI breakage, which will mean that you should rebuild <janneke>now my guile-next remains after guix environment guix --ad-hoc git guix emacs <janneke>i am rebuilding world all the time, could have tricky setup somewhere... <davexunit>janneke: what do you mean "guile-next remains" <davexunit>the command you sent doesn't create an isolated environment <davexunit>it augments your environment with those tings <davexunit>and 'guix environment' doesn't install anything to your profile, so it's not going to install guile-2.0 <janneke>davexunit: i have guile-next in my profile, then run the guix environment guix .. command <janneke>and i expect `guile' to be guile-2.0 then... <janneke>apparently i'm mistaken? i think that used to work... <janneke>PATH still starts with /home/janneke/.guix-profile/bin <davexunit>.bashrc should pretty much *never* set environment variables, because it is used for non-login interactive shells <davexunit>.bash_profile is where environment variables should be set <htgoebel1>I'd like to contribute a first package of python-django. Since django itself is a framework with many many packages, I'd suggest putting these into either "gnu packages django" or "gnu packages python django". Which one should I use? <davexunit>we don't make additional subdirectories for package modules <ng0>python is already long enough <davexunit>I think a new module makes sense because django is this huge collection of stuff <ng0>pointing out that it is long. size, yes i agree <keverets>hmmm; "guix package -I" shows guix 0.10.0-0.7611 installed, but "guix --version" says 0.9.0 <keverets>ls -l ~/.guix_profile/bin/guix shows a symlink to the 0.10.0-0.7611/bin/guix <davexunit>guix always uses the modules in ~/.config/guix/latest if its there <kyamashita>Good news! Red Eclipse builds, but it needs its data. How can I enable the data to be downloaded? I know that many other distros package the engine and the data seperately. <htgoebel1>Should the packages and variables by prefixed with "django" or "python-django"? <keverets>davexunit: I do. Is there an alternative? <bavier>kyamashita: look at other package in gnu/packages/games.scm to see how they handle "data" packages <davexunit>keverets: so it's a known bug, is what I'm saying. <davexunit>htgoebel1: python libraries are prefixed with "python-" typically <davexunit>I would keep with that convention, but don't let any uncertainty in naming block you from packaging things. <htgoebel1>I know. I just wanted to know if for frameworks this is the same convention. <davexunit>we don't really draw such fine distinctions like that <davexunit>we can always deviate if there's good reason <htgoebel1>davexunit: Do I have to add the new file to some Makefile.am? Some log messages say so. <keverets>davexunit: ok, thanks for letting me know <davexunit>it also wouldn't be installed by 'make install' <davexunit>I feel like avr-libc shouldn't need a 32-bit host-arch libc in order to build. I've built avr-libc in the past just fine. <davexunit>but then it broke sometime, and we even have a bug report from someone last month about it ***kelsoo2 is now known as kelsoo
<htgoebel>Hmm, the license of one of the packages is "MIT Licence". There is no MIT-licence in guix/licences.scm. How should I add this to the package? <davexunit>htgoebel: the reason we don't have such a variable is because "MIT license" is ambiguous <davexunit>read the license text for them and you'll see if either fits <bavier>is there no "what software license is this?" tool? <davexunit>I find that it is usually Expat in these cases <davexunit>but in general I'm wary of automated tools for this <bavier>might be a fun hack for 'guix import' <davexunit>copyright law is not something a machine can do <bavier>davexunit: no, but in the spirit of 'guix import' it should be able to give a start <davexunit>packagers *should* make an attempt to understand the licenses <alezost>there is a kinda helper tool: "M-x guix-licenses" <bavier>haha, browsing the list, I see that our boost package maybe should have the "Boost 1.0" license instead of an x11-style <davexunit>omg I just got avr-libc to build with a nasty hack! <davexunit>now to see if it can actually compile firmware <lfam>Is the ' a celebratory raised fist? <lfam>I think I see the first from the unifont <ijp>davexunit: fwiw it is the unicode codepoint RAISED FIST <davexunit>is there seriously a codepoint with that name? <lfam>What *isn't* there a codepoint for? <ijp>there is also FACE WITH OPEN MOUTH AND COLD SWEAT <lfam>I read through all the face / emotion codepoints recently, to pick the very best one <ijp>I've been complaining about unicode bloat since before PILE OF POO made it cool :) <lfam>You should send U+1F595 to the Unicode Consortium <anthk_>how can I use "--fallback" with "guix package -u "? <slim404>I managed to set up the french keyboard on the console and in gnome.. <slim404>so my question is : what's the display manager? <slim404>but when I do "guix package -I slim" it displays nothing <bavier>slim404: SLiM is typically installed in the system profile <slim404>bavier: how can I setup a french keyboard in slim? <bavier>lfam: what are the advantages over the referent implementation in python? <lfam>boulder is the client the reference client is talking to <lfam>I mean, Boulder is the server <lfam>efraim: Should we add libidn to our Mutt package? <efraim>lfam: I don't know of any email servers that need international characters in their address <efraim>we probably should in the interest of supporting it, and it shouldn't add much if anything to the closure <lfam>What would it be used for if there are no email servers that need it? <efraim>internationisation is there on the internets so I think its more of not enough servers support it correctly <efraim>but I assume it would also be useful if you had a username with UTF8 characters in your name <lfam>So we'd be supporting the standard before it is widely adopted? <efraim>I haven't looked at it too closely <efraim>I can try setting up אפרים@flashner.co.il and see if it goes through <efraim>it got forwarded to me correctly, but I think libidn is more for if I had efraim@פלשנר.co.il