<sneek>rain1, lfam says: I noticed you linked to my development mirror of Guix on your guix-wiki. That's cool! But I think it would be better if you linked to my private packages repo, which is called 'pkgs' and not 'guix'
<Jookia>iyzsong: So we'll need to keep the GTK2 patches but it's fine
<Jookia>rain1: Editing the packages tree? You mean guix?
<ng_>civodul: I send an email last night with the intention to start a discussion an a patch tracking system, my impression is that we need it. Even if we don't necessarily need it now, the number of messages per day could rise, management other than a mailinglist is needed.
<efraim>i like aria2 for torrents, but i bet libtorrent would be better
<rain1>although is there much source code on magnets? I heard about gittorrent
<davexunit>in an ideal world, we'd write our own minimal bittorrent client that can download things
<ng_>Speaking of projects/companies interested in Guix, is there something else other than nginx to be fixed what would be needed to have Guix ready for servers, is someone tracking the state of when it might be suitable to present to hosters?
<efraim>going back to our discussion about magnet-url downloads from ~2.5 hours ago, aria2 would also work for the proposed `download using wget` method
<Jookia>civodul: Using Guix to build a tiny Linux distro (without Guile :( ) is going pretty well. Also, I have several people using the coreboot RFC patches happily in the wild, so I think they're stable as they are. I think the review that needs to be done is on design
<civodul>Jookia: i think "binaries-are-bad" is the same thing as "freedom": you want to make sure you run the software you're supposed to run
<wingo>Jookia: it's a trust issue in that your build is a function not of source but of source plus binaries, and you can never really verify the binaries
<wingo>there are ways to make the binaries such that you have more trust in them
<davexunit>at LibrePlanet, the debian developer that gave the "beyond reproducible builds" talk said part of the goal is to change the meaning of free software. software is not free if its not reproducible.
<davexunit>the developers bootstrapped once upon a time!
<davexunit>then they ditched the code instead of keeping it around for others to do.
<rain1>the issue is that you need the compiler to compile the compiler
<davexunit>because reproducibility isn't something that developers care about that much yet
<rain1>even if compile "compiler" = compiler you don't know that its poisoned
<Jookia>To humor some ideas: Where does bootstrapping begin and end? Why is GCC okay, but not Haskell?
<rain1>which is exactly what the PoC i linked showed
<davexunit>GCC is "okay" in the sense that it can serve as *the* bootstrap compiler
<Jookia>Is C being the universal intermediate language
<davexunit>C is *the* language of UNIX. it's at the core of everything.
<davexunit>we can imagine a time when we have the tools to bootstrap a minimal C compiler from native assembly code that can start the bootstrapping process.
<davexunit>building up a series of more sophisticated compilers, until GCC can be compiled.
<Jookia>All bootstrapping has the assumption that you start from an existing set of binaries, and for Guix a few have been chosen. I suppose the issue is that languages tend not to have multiple ways to boostrap
<rain1>I'm not sure I believe in the DDC solution though...
<tg>but if you have question before submitting the final proposal go ask the ML
<jlicht>tg: I have sent a draft of my proposal to the guix-devel list, in the hopes of getting some pointers before the deadline. Once I feel confident in my proposal, I should then just hand it in via the google site, and that's that?
<lfam>If we want to convince them to spend the time to explain to us how to generate the C code, we should do it via their preferred method of communication, and limit the question to a request for information
<lfam>I'm not surprised they aren't receptive to outsiders asking them to upend their infrastructure
<lfam>That's like when people ask us to add /usr/bin/env ;)
<Jookia>What if their generator is written in Chicken? ;)