<petter>ah ok. I'm at the installed but not added to packages yet stage so i don't know. <lfam>Hey, at least you can see the buttons! ;) <mark_weaver>rekado: you might need to go into the "appearance" settings. I vaguely recall needing to switch away from 'raleigh' <rekado>none of the settings in "appearance" seem to have any effect. <detrout>Hm. I'm trying to update Python to 3.5.1 and for some reason its having trouble importing _ctypes in the build process. <rekado>well, switching to a different icon theme has an effect, but none of the style choices seem to do anything <rekado>that's the same on all my GuixSD machines. <detrout>Just to check guix environment package is supposed to give you an environment where you can build package, not an environment with package built? <sneek>Welcome back rain1, you have 1 message. <sneek>rain1, stis says: thanks for the bug report, try pull the repo and check that it now works <rain1>this is really weird and scary <rain1>fdid i click something weird.. i have no idea where this came from <lfam>rain1: That's pretty weird! <rain1>oh false alarm, guix is not hacked -- i found it inside the freenode server message <rekado>detrout: "guix environment abc" gives you an environment in which all *dependencies* of "abc" are available. "guix environment --ad-hoc abc" gives you an environment in which "abc" itself is available. <lfam>But is it something in upstream icecat? <rain1>i just accidenntally clicked it and couldn't work out where from <detrout>rekado: that's what I thought. Thanks for confirming <detrout>I wonder why i keep trying to rebuild python <lfam>detrout: For building, it's really best to add --pure or even --container to the invocation. Otherwise your existing environment will leak in <lfam>But --container doesn't work out of the box on Debian <detrout>I figured out I should do --pure, but hadn't realized --container was a choice <lfam>You can make it work but it's not the default <lfam>Or, the features it requires are not enabled by default <lfam>Yeah, I haven't tried it here but I'm pretty sure that's what you'd need to do.off <lfam>You can do a lot of cool stuff with `guix environment`. It's a real "swiss-army knife` <lfam>I was really impressed by that! <detrout>is there an easy way to spawn a guix --pure shell based on your current profile? <detrout>doing guix environment --ad-hoc long list of stuff gets tiring <mark_weaver>lfam, rain1: what did that site say that made you worried? <lfam>mark_weaver: rain1 thought that our icecat package had a default home-page of a for-private VPN provider <rain1>it just seems exactly like what a virus would do but I made a mistake! <rain1>it's actually a legitimate site <lfam>I have heard of that company. But you clicked on a link in IRC, right? <rain1>yeah it's in the text you get when you join this server <rain1>"We would like to thank Private Internet Access" <lfam>detrout: That's a good question, I'm not sure of the answer. We recently started generating environments *as* profiles rather than putting each element on your PATH individually. <lfam>You might want to ask on guix-devel <lfam>I wonder exactly *what* counts as your current profile, though? <detrout>a FOSDEM talk suggested some commands took a -d for a different profile directory <lfam>Yeah, I just don't know; it's beyond my knowledge. A worthy question! <lfam>Hm, I'm not familiar with that. You can list and switch between profiles. You can also load a profile with -p <lfam>For `guix package`, -d deletes all your old profiles <detrout>video says guix package -p <path to profile> <rain1>what is the correct way to launch ssh-agent and add a key in guix? <rain1>would this be part of system configuration? <mark_weaver>rain1: it's normally handled by xfce4-session and presumably also gnome-session. <mark_weaver>rain1: it needs to set the SSH_AUTH_SOCK and SSH_AGENT_PID environment variables, so it really needs to be done early in your user login process, so that the environment variable settings will be inherited by the entire session. <mark_weaver>if you're using a more primitive window manager, then it could be handled within ~/.xsession <mark_weaver>which, if present, should be an executable script (chmod +x and with a shehang on top) whose final action is to launch your window manager <rain1>maybe it's because I gave my key a special name <kristofer>what native-input will provide my package with autoreconf? <nckx>kristofer: I think it's just ‘autoconf‘, from the autotools package. If that's not enough, try its friends: automake, libtool, ... <kristofer>/gnu/store/k85gz4nabvl5a1i15w5pmq8zqaync5cl-bash-4.3.42/bin/bash: ./configure: No such file or directory <kristofer>it doesn't autoreconf to generate the configure script <Jookia>Is it a bug that guix system init installs the grub.cfg gcroot to the host's /var/guix/gcroots rather than /mnt/root/var/guix/gcroots ? <Jookia>In my patches I accidentally 'fix' this <iyzsong>kristofer: what's the 'modify-phases ,phases' for? the common way is 'modify-phases %standard-phases'... did your autogen.sh run? <iyzsong>oh, it's for substitute-keywoard-arguments. ok :-) <mark_weaver>Jookia: that might indeed be a bug. can you email bug-guix@gnu.org about it? <Jookia>mark_weaver: Sure! I have a fix for it in my patch series if it's a bug. Otherwise, I have a regression for it in my patch series ;P <xd1le>mark_weaver: re: vi/vim on image, i obviously prefer emacs for editing scheme, but vi/vim is still vastly better than nano for vim fingers <xd1le>also i'm pretty sure vi is lot smaller than vim <xd1le>and i understand because emacs is obviously big <xd1le>also this is pre-installing anything, getting into making configurations just for the installation image is too much effor for what it's worth imo <Jookia>well, vim on the disk image shouldn't be that big an issue should it? lots of people want it (bias intensifies) and i'm sure just shipping vi would make people a lot more comfortable <xd1le>Jookia: the logs talk about vim having some weird runtime dependencies <xd1le>vi is definitely good enough here <xd1le>note vi and vim are different, vi is smaller, more simple editor <paron_remote>my home server / backup machine seems to be dying in my absence <paron_remote>lots of things deciding to be finnicky now that I'm on extended away :P <paron_remote>though I suspect guix/sheperd may be one more head-butting direction... maybe, maybe not? <paron_remote>I think there's maybe more of a clean abstraction back between the parts guix is doing with container things and the way sheperd comes into play though <xd1le>i don't understand why systemd would care about docker <Jookia>I lost interest in systemd when it moved to github since I can't in theory contribute <xd1le>docker is specific to containers <iyzsong>no, guix isn't a single thing, it's the union. <xd1le>whereas systemd is general init system <paron_remote>they butt heads on trying to take over various processes <xd1le>paron_remote: yes but i'm saying, who cares about docker then? <paron_remote>xd1le: a *lot* of people care about docker in that its userbase is huge <xd1le>as in, docker is free to user whatever else it likes <paron_remote>whew, I'm no longer needed here, take it away paroneayea ;) <Jookia>man containers are confusing i don't think i'll ever understand them aside from guix containers <xd1le>paroneayea: well yeah i know that, but i'm saying systemd doesn't really have to care about docker, if you know what i'm saying <iyzsong>Jookia: to me, guix is the union of free softwares (or GNU). packaging and distributing could improve the situation as a whole :o <Jookia>iyzsong: yeah. to me guix is more of the end-game of managing dependencies and environments for running software. doesn't matter if it's a user environment, container, VM, system or dev environment- get them dependencies in scope and get out of the way <xd1le>anyway, yeah this is why i like the guix approach rather than docker <_`_>systemd has its own container implementation <_`_>so if they want to *compete* with docker, they do have to care. <_`_>competing with docker seems silly to me though :> <_`_>just target a better audience <Jookia>non-nix containers seem stupid to me since you can't patch them and you have another OS inside like why <_`_>“and you have another OS inside like why” <_`_>Having a distinct userspace, regardless of what it consists of specifically, has been the point of os-level virt from the beginning. <Jookia>yes but why would you want like a multi-gigabyte opaque blob <_`_>what is that supposed to refer to exactly <Jookia>usually you download big images to put in a container, or install another OS in them <azuvix>Does GNU Shepherd have its own channel somewhere, or is it more appropriate to ask questions about it here? <xd1le>mark_weaver: thanks, it works now! :) <xd1le>sneek: tell civodul later: thank you, guix download worked. :) <sneek>civodul, xd1le says: later: thank you, guix download worked. :) <xd1le>sneek: later tell civodul: thank you, guix download worked. :) <xd1le>azuvix: i suppose this is the appropriate place, because to my knowledge guixsd are the only major users of shepherd <_`_>docker encourages the “install a big image” practice. “install another OS” would just be installing another user space e.g. something like using debootstrap(8) to have a rootfs of trisquel then having a fedora host use it for a container. For people familiar with those two, what's wrong with that? <azuvix>Fair enough. I was just wondering if there was any kind of "migration guide" for users that aren't (yet) intimately familiar with Guile and would like to try using Shepherd on, say, Trisquel. The current documentation seems to assume you know exactly what you're doing. <xd1le>mark_weaver: is guix system reconfigure supposed to take such a long time compiling a lot of stuff? if so, is there any way to make it faster? <iyzsong>_`_: nothing wrong, but in nix/guix, theoretically we have same functions (not practical) and better transparent and trust (hydra vs dockerhub) <_`_>iyzsong: you should let Jookia answer for themselves. <xd1le>azuvix: i honestly wouldn't know, unfortunately, bit of a newbie myself. <Jookia>i didn't know there was a question <Jookia>_`_: there's nothing wrong with it but i don't get it because it's inefficient and eats up my hard drive <Jookia>i also don't want to maintain yet another OS inside my OS because i'm lazy <azuvix>xd1le: Not a problem. I'm sure there will come a time when there's a lower entry bar, but meantime it's fun to learn. <_`_>I guess if you look at containers a just “application containers” that makes sense. <_`_>I never seen them like that so, meh. <xd1le>azuvix: (but others here may be able to answer) <efraim>I have quassel packaged locally, any suggestions on where to add it? <efraim>right now I'm leaning toward irc.scm, and pulling in weechat and irssi <rekado>efraim: we also have messaging.scm; otherwise your plan to use irc.scm and moving other packages from their own modules seems good to me. <efraim>i'll check out messaging.scm and see what else is in there, but it would be nice to combine some of the single package files <rekado>two more bioinfo package authors have chosen the GPLv3(+) for their tools that previously had no license declarations at all. <efraim>guix build foo bar -c1 -M2 builds foo and bar in parallel, 1 core each? or 1 core for 2 paralel builds <rekado>even with adwaita-icon-theme installed. <rekado>does it look any different for anyone of you who are using the adwaita theme? <Jookia>rekado: I'm disappointed you're not using Clearlooks theme <rekado>I have a ~/.xsession file to start my X session. Could it be that I have to set environment variables there? <rekado>Jookia: none of the themes look any different form Raleigh. <rekado>it doesn't hurt me much because I'm in fullscreen Emacs all the time, but on my partner's machine it's very noticeable. <Jookia>I think there's some GTK2_* vars that're set with the login manager somewhere, unsure <rekado>GUIX_GTK2_PATH and GUIX_GTK3_PATH, right. I introduced them to make IBus work. <rekado>would be nice if someone with working GTK themes could describe their configuration on GuixSD. <rekado>ACTION has to go afk for a while now <flat13>hi! during the guix system init I receive lots(about 70% of all downloads) of 'guix substitute: error: hostname lookup error: Name or service not known' also, guix is telling that 'hydra' server is slow <flat13>it also looks like it compiles everything from source and does not use any binaries <xd1le>flat13: yeah hostname lookup error doesn't sound right <rekado>flat13: binaries come from hydra (by default), so when hydra cannot be found that means that no binaries will be downloaded. <xd1le>i don't recall that when i did an init a few days ago <rekado>if so, I suggest restarting the nscd service: "deco restart nscd" ("deco" is now called "herd", but it's still the old name on the latest release) <efraim>now is the best time to hit hydra since the USA is mostly asleep <rekado>flat13: could be that nscd has cached a lookup failure. <xd1le>efraim: oh sweet, thanks for the info <rekado>there have been other reports of this bug, but I haven't been able to reproduce this myself. (Maybe it's gone in later versions of nscd) <flat13>yes, I am using the guixSD, trying that now <efraim>yeah I try to do more updating/testing in the morning <NiAsterisk>regarding mailinglists in general: I have a filtering problem and amount of lists problem. someone suggested to use gmane for most of them, however I doubt that sending patches through gmane works or is accepted today? <xd1le>efraim: unfortunately, this around the time i go to sleep :o <flat13>is 'deco restart nscd' supposed to take a long time? after 'Service nscd has been started' it does not return. (Should I wait or ^C? ) <xd1le>see if the shell is given back <rekado>flat13: it should not take long at all. <rekado>once it prints "has been started" it should return with a prompt. <flat13>ok, I'll just copy the config and boot into USB again <rekado>this shouldn't be necessary (and you might run into the same nscd error again) <rekado>NiAsterisk: I think it does work. You could use GNUS with gmane. <xd1le>btw, anyone here only use a window manager, not a desktop environment? <NiAsterisk>i know i can use Gnus with gmane, but is sending patches via gmane an accepted policy? <xd1le>i put (slim-service) and the %base-services in my system config <rekado>(I'm sorting mailinglist posts with offlineimap into folders and then switch folders with mu4e) <xd1le>slim starts, but after login it hangs <rekado>NiAsterisk: "I think it does work" <xd1le>at could not connect to dbus or something <rekado>I know it works for the mailinglists of other GNU subprojects (e.g. emacs-devel) <NiAsterisk>I do sort every list into folders, I just ran into a problem where Cc/CC'ed lists colide. <xd1le>so it'd be nice to see someone else's config <Jookia>I just skim or read the posts in Mutt <rekado>xd1le: do you have a ~/.xsession? <xd1le>yes, it's executable and has `exec xmonad` in it <xd1le>and my user environment seems to have the `xmonad` command available <rekado>xd1le: are you sure it's hanging? (Or could it be that your xmonad config is broken on GuixSD?) <rekado>you could check the logs, I suppose. <xd1le>rekado: well i don't have no xmonad config right now <xd1le>(xmonad works without a config too) <xd1le>well i do, i just haven't git cloned it yet <xd1le>actually, perhaps that is the problem, a lack of .xmonad folder or something <xd1le>maybe i'll try i3 or something <xd1le>rekado: where are the logs to check? <alezost>xd1le: I use only WM (stumpwm), but I don't use slim at all <xd1le>alezost: oh sweet, so how do you do it? <xd1le>(i was told slim needs to be used to start X) <xd1le>alezost: maybe you have your config online? <flat13>the error indeed disappeared, thanks! I run --no-grub, will I be able to find the kernel and initrd in /boot to add to the Gummiboot? <xd1le>btw, the slim guixsd theme is *really* nice <xd1le>good work to whoever made that <xd1le>alezost: also, isn't stumpwm currently unpackaged in guix? <alezost>xd1le: my way is very unusual: I use shepherd as a user to start X server and wm <xd1le>i seem to recall people talking about how to package it not maybe a week ago <alezost>stumpwm is not packaged, I build it from source <xd1le>alezost: that's cool, i don't think that's too unusual <flat13>xd1le: I do not use Guix yet, but I use Bspwm, I login into Linux console and have a script in .zprofile that just runs 'startx' if I'm on tty1 <alezost>xd1le: actually I think I'm the only person in the world who uses shepherd as a user to start X server <xd1le>alezost: ah your configs are on your github account i presume? <xd1le>if so i'll take a look at them, thanks! <xd1le>alezost: well if i can get it working, it would be two! <xd1le>unless your saying it's really inconvenient or something <xd1le>flat13: yes basically most wm users on arch do that <xd1le>(i did that too when i used arch) <xd1le>in fact i also packaged bspwm for guix <xd1le>and now that i don't even use bspwm anymore... :| <xd1le>but it should be easy to update <alezost>xd1le: it is very convenient for me, but I think it will not be easy to configure for other people <xd1le>i follow the issue tracker, there's possibly a few new dependencies but should not be that hard <xd1le>alezost: i have an .xinitrc file that is basically a list of commands i want to run when the X server starts <xd1le>as long as i can do that, i'm happy <flat13>xd1le: but what is wrong with that, why do you need a sepparate login manager? <xd1le>alezost: but yes, there is some desire it seems for stumpwm to be packaged for guix, the problem is understanding the whole common lisp ecosystem, of course <xd1le>flat13: i don't want it, i was told it's required on guixsd, as the only way to start X. <xd1le>flat13: this is also the same on NixOS too <xd1le>well i really have to sleep, good luck flat13. and thank you alezost, i will check out your setup, see what i can do. <alezost>flat13: about finding kernel: you need to pass several options to a kernel command (--root, --system, --load). <alezost>flat13: I don't think 'startx' will work on GuixSD/NixOS (although I didn't try it) <alezost>I mean "startx" is just a wrapper to start Xorg server, you can probably run it 1) as root, 2) if you specify "-modulepath" <flat13>it works on Gentoo, why wouldn't it work on this distro? I'll install xorg, xinit, copy my .xinitrc and try, do you think I will not be able to start X that way? <alezost>flat13: I'm sure just "startx" wouldn't work, because modules for X server are not installed in a standard directory (they will be placed in /gnu/store), so you also need to install such packages as "xf86-input-evdev" and "xf86-video-…" and point Xorg modulepath to the installed directory ("<profile>/lib/xorg/modules") <rain1>I have a feeling that youtube videos don't have sound in icecat or midori is related to gstreamer, I found the command line program gst-play-1.0 also does not play sound <rain1>gst-launch-1.0 audiotestsrc ! audioresample ! audioconvert ! autoaudiosink <rain1>strangely this does play sound <iyzsong>rain1: do you have gst-plugins-base and maybe gst-plugins-good installed? <rain1>it's super weird, this test program played a sine wave seconds ago b ut now doesn't <rain1>ALSA lib pcm_dmix.c:1022:(snd_pcm_dmix_open) unable to open slave <fps>check with lsof if any programs have any device files in /dev/snd open <rain1>thanks for the tip! lsof | grep snd turned up empty <rain1>I'll read more about the alsa sound system/docus <iyzsong>if pulseaudio is running, gstreamer will use that. <fps>depending on how programs use the ALSA api (i.e. which PCM device they open) and whether your soundcard supports hardware mixing <rain1>is it recommended to use pulse? I had it before and removed it but removing it didn't fix anything <fps>a single ALSA client can block every other app from using it <fps>you can also try the speaker-test executable <fps>try speaker-test -D default <iyzsong>nowadays, i think only pulseaudio and jack will block other alsa-only app from using alsa. <fps>that is completely wrong <fps>if a soundcard driver does not support opening multiple streams (and this is usually only implemented for soundcards that support that in hardware) then opening the hardware device [e.g. hw:0,0] or any alsa PCM device that does not do software mixing will block the device <fps>you can even run jack and pulseaudio on e.g. plug:dmix PCM devices <iyzsong>rain1: only if pulseaudio work fine, you can try pavucontrol to configure it. <iyzsong>fps: ah, you're right. get it. thanks! <fps>sadly i got a visitor right now. <fps>but since ALSA is such an easy to misuse API and programs use it in all kinds of wrong way, and the software mixing PCM plugins like dmix/dsnoop etc are hard to use <fps>it is generally considered a good idea to use pulseaudio and the PCM device is provides as default PCM device <rain1>yeah API design is very important <fps>this way ALSA programs are routed through pulseaudio unless they explicitly request direct access through pcm devices like "hw:0,0" <fps>which e.g. jack and pulseaudio do per default :) <iyzsong>rain1: did you try pavucontrol? I think the silence is due to pulseaudio mis-configured. <rain1>I'm trying it now and it's looking promising <rain1>welll it made gst-play-1.0 work (now is able to play sound), no luck with ogg or videos inside either browser though! <rain1>maybe I need to add gst-plugins-base,good as a native input to midori <rain1>ah! It needs to be a propagated-input! <rain1>perhaps this will fix icecat too, I'll try <rain1>oh no, ice cat failed to build :( <iyzsong>with gstraemer, gst-{plugins-base, plugins-good, libav} installed and GST_PLUGIN_PATH or GST_PLUGIN_SYSTEM_PATH existed, my icecat and epiphany work fine :-) <rain1>oh maybe I just needed to set GST_PLUGIN_PATH or GST_PLUGIN_SYSTEM_PATH <rain1>and don't have to add these things as propagated inputs <iyzsong>wow, that's cool. it's under planning? <pizzaiolo>I got a message on reddit from the developer with this link <amz`>everbody has the right to create a website with a few logos ;) <nckx>...with a grammar mistake in the download link :-/ No problem, but not great for confidence considering the success rate of such projects. <rain1>what value is $GST_PLUGIN_PATH set to? <rain1>maybe it should just be ~/.guix-profile/lib <rain1>I wonder if it willbe possible for guix itself to mantain some environment vars like this rather than users having to do it? <NiAsterisk>are all guix related gnu lists open without subscription to post to? I am cutting down in groups and switching to some newsgroup based servers, might do that with guix. <rain1>I want to package a program thaht has no ./configure but imports gtk/gtk.h <rekado>rain1: guix can print needed env vars, so you can do "eval $(guix package --search-paths=prefix)" <rain1>I deleted the configure phase but I can't work out any way to show it the gtk headers <rain1>is there a way or would a ./configure need to be written (I hope not) <rekado>rain1: nah, you don't need to write a configure script yourself. <rekado>rain1: you should probably add the "gtk+" package to the inputs then. <rain1>I tried adding gtk+ and also gtk+-2 <rain1>but it can't see the headers in either case <rekado>guix will set up environment variables at build time to make sure that the compiler sees the headers. <rain1>so I alsotried using glib/gtk build system instead of gnu, but that didn't help either <rekado>could you show me the complete build output? <rekado>ACTION has to go now, but will check later <civodul>mark_weaver: would you know how to add a "mirror.hydra.gnu.org" DNS entry? <sneek>civodul, you have 1 message. <sneek>civodul, xd1le says: thank you, guix download worked. :) <civodul>mark_weaver: i would like to set it up so we can publish it right away, and use it as soon as we have an actual mirror <civodul>ACTION has little experience about BIND, advice welcome :-) <mark_weaver>civodul: I assume we'd need to ask sysadmin@gnu.org for that <civodul>i was about to do that, but if it's a subdomain, we probably don't even need their help, no? <mark_weaver>if it's a subdomain that they've already delegated to us, yes. <davexunit>civodul: I think a CNAME would need to be added <mark_weaver>hmm, I'm a little rusty at this, but I guess that such delegation would involve there being an NS record for hydra.gnu.org pointing to a DNS server that we control <sneek>paroneayea, you have 1 message. <sneek>paroneayea, a_e says: Never install texlive-texmf into your profile! Just use texlive. texlive-texmg is an internal package that is only exposed so that it can be built locally instead of served by the substituter. <mark_weaver>civodul: in other news, I think that we're close to being able to merge the 'media-updates' branch. I've been using it and it works well. <mark_weaver>in fact it seems to perform better and maybe even solve some problems I've been having <civodul>paroneayea: i've looked at it and then got derailed into the mirroring issue <mark_weaver>I'm using gnome-shell now too. but network-manager still doesn't work for me :-( <civodul>initially i thought about creating a static mirror with "guix publish --static=/some/dir" <civodul>i thought we could mount /some/dir as sshfs on hydra.gnu.org, for instance <civodul>then i realized that "guix gc --list-live" (needed to get the list of things to mirror) is awfully slow on hydra.gnu.org <civodul>so now i'm thinking that we'd rather build a lazy mirror or something <mark_weaver>civodul: could the nars be created by the slaves? are the signatures in the nars? <civodul>the signatures are in the narinfos, not the nars; creating them on the slaves would require changes to Hydra, a no-go <civodul>but we have 'guix publish', where we can do things differently <civodul>and indeed, we could run it on hydra such that it does not compress anything, for instance <civodul>and the mirror would be the one compressing things <civodul>i think it's time to move away from Hydra, in part because upgrading to the current Hydra would already be a pain, i think <civodul>there have been many changes that tie it more with Nix <mark_weaver>well, I agree that we should move away from hydra, the software. <mark_weaver>the software running on hydra is a big part of the problems. <davexunit>well we have part of the job done with 'guix publish' <mark_weaver>so if we're replacing hydra anyway, then why not have the slaves generate the nars and hydra simply moves them around. <mark_weaver>all the constant compressing and decompressing to/from the slaves and proxies then goes away, as well as tens of millions of files in hydra's /gnu/store <mark_weaver>and the amount of work that hydra has to do becomes much more manageable <civodul>wait, we're not replacing Hydra today :-) <pecg>if would be neat to be able to append a custom config file for the kernel when using --no-substitutes, so one can compile a custom one, removing features not needed in the system <civodul>i'm just thinking about the mirroring thing <civodul>and for mirroring, if something needs to be hacked, it should be 'guix publish', not Hydra <civodul>(besides, compression to/from slaves takes place in 'guix offload', not Hydra) <davexunit>pecg: huh? if you're talking about building system derivations, then you can just modify the kernel in your OS config <pecg>Well, I'm not that versed in guix yet, so I didn't know one could modify the kernel in the OS declaration <davexunit>and anything you can do from our CLI has a Scheme interface <davexunit>and of course you can do sooo much more more on the Scheme side <mark_weaver>civodul: how does "guix publish" differ from what is currently being done by hydra (the machine, not the software). is it significanly more efficient? <paroneayea>I'd like to apply danny's psycopg2 patch to master <paroneayea>but I don't think he used git format-patch despite me asking that earlier, and I don't see a changelog style commit <paroneayea>should I just commit it under my name and attribute him? <bavier>perhaps we could refer to the machine with a proper noun to disambiguate <civodul>mark_weaver: it just publishes store items, and currently doesn't do any compression <civodul>but i thought we could add compression and maybe a --mirror mode that would fetch substitutes from hydra.gnu.org <civodul>effectively turning it into a lazy mirror <mark_weaver>civodul: what would be the advantage of this over simply setting up nginx mirrors elsewhere with similar configuration to the nginx that's currently running on hydra? <civodul>mark_weaver: good point! nginx might be easier, indeed <civodul>well okay, that's a much more reasonable option <bavier>the 'guix publish --mirror' option might be easier for newbies to setup <civodul>'guix publish' could be slightly smarter by checking into its own store <mark_weaver>I see "checking its own store" as being similar to nginx "checking its cache". the store is a cache, after all, right? <mark_weaver>also, if we ran "guix publish" on the mirrors, would the mirrors need hydra's private signing key? <civodul>not necessarily, that's the funny thing <civodul>'guix publish' could server somebody else's narinfo as is, with the signature <civodul>*provided* it can serve the corresponding nar <civodul>there's a gotcha: currently the narinfo signature is computed over the raw narinfo, which includes the "Compression" field <mark_weaver>anyway, the nginx cache is in a form where it can simply be sent over the wire with something like 'sendfile' <civodul>so the compression algorithm would effectively be enforced by the source <mark_weaver>as opposed to having to dynamically put together a nar archive <civodul>eventually, Nix/Hydra brought a different signature scheme that doesn't have this drawback <civodul>yeah 'guix publish' would need a cache in front of it anyway <efraim>i found a typo i made in python-swiftclient <civodul>mark_weaver: would you be available to set up nginx on one of the build machines we have as a first test? <mark_weaver>I should say, though, that IMO the biggest problem we have now is what happens when there's a cache miss. <mark_weaver>when the NAR being requested is already in the nginx cache on hydra, things work pretty well <mark_weaver>e.g. 3 hours to dynamically create the NAR for texlive-texmf <mark_weaver>civodul: for now, it might be more important to work on fixing grafts. openssl has announced that there will be another security update released on March 1. <mark_weaver>they are withholding the details, but say the updates "will fix several security defects with maximum severity 'high'." <mark_weaver>it would be good if we could deploy the fix for that more quickly <civodul>mark_weaver: okay, i'll resume work on grafts and report back <NiAsterisk>hm.. in emacs regexp, if I want to capture exactly [asdf-qwertz] including the [ ], do I escape it like \\\\[asdf-qwertz\\\\] ?or do I need more backslashes? <efraim>so... openssl is having a patch tuesday? <mark_weaver>no doubt the NSA, GCHQ, and many other actors know the details and are having fun in the meantime :-( <paroneayea>I'm hitting a weird issue where it's saying "ubound variable python2-paste" <efraim>i think you switched the commands <efraim>(inherit (package-with-python2 (strip... python-foo))) <davexunit>before we start pasting that same python-2 pattern everywhere, could someone write a procedure to do it? <paroneayea>davexunit: I already pasted that pattern everywhere! :) <davexunit>would be pretty easy to write, and easier to read later. <paroneayea>I agree that it would be nice to have an abstraction <paroneayea>davexunit: I wonder also if we should adjust the pypi import stuff <paroneayea>to generate the python2 one with python-setuptools *if* it sees there's a python2 one <efraim>i'm working on that one with the properties one <efraim>or, to use more nouns, i'm working on the python2-setuptools <mark_weaver>civodul: what would you think of merging the 'media-updates' branch now? ***boegel|quassel is now known as boegel
<mark_weaver>these are the two non-update commits, maybe worth looking over if you haven't already: 79fd74facd96956f62721927e84ab77caa168a9f 62061d6be3614dd84a1d0034dd5946f7e54fbaea <civodul>mark_weaver: LGTM, the remaining packages to build seem less critical <civodul>BTW, at some point eudev-with-blkid should become eudev <mark_weaver>previously, I was having a problem on my X60 where I often couldn't play any video, and had to restart the X server to get videos working again. <mark_weaver>so far, I haven't seen that problem since updating to 'media-updates'. <davexunit>ACTION still needs to see why he cannot suspend laptop with gnome-shell without entering infinite suspend loop <efraim>now I can delete a bunch of my local branches :) <efraim>and I went overboard again on python leaf updates, I think I'm up to 13 <NiAsterisk>mark_weaver: the regexp might've been wrong, idk. there's a possibility that this change is the reason my emacs goes up to 100% cpu when I start gnus <NiAsterisk>ya, definitely wrong, messages still drop into the wrong folder. hm <paroneayea>davexunit: so there are kind of multiple cases with this python2 stuff <paroneayea>but I guess the most common case can be easily abstracted <paroneayea>davexunit: I'll take a shot at it if I have time shotly <detrout>I was looking at sfconservancy's write up about zfs, and was wondering can guix refuse to provide substitutes for a package? <davexunit>we can specify that a derivation must be built locally <detrout>Ah ok. so it might be reasonable to have the zfs dkms package available in guix? <efraim>we have #:substitutable? and #:build-locally <efraim>not sure about the spelling on the second one <paroneayea>I think it's not wise to include it in guix itself <paroneayea>if people want to package and build it locally that's another thing probably, but I don't think guix should include anything that links zfs with the kernel <detrout>I sometimes wish there was a canonical location for "contrib" and "non-free" guix packaging <detrout>oh no... it'd have to be the dkms module <detrout>there's some debian packages that contain the source and a set of scripts to build from source <detrout>there's no way you should ship a binary with zfs. <detrout>but including the tools to streamline building a local kernel rootfs is a plausible thing <davexunit>detrout: encouraging users to install nonfree software is not what we're going for. <paroneayea>zfs is not nonfree, but yeah, the whole license compatibility thing <davexunit>so there will never be a canonical location for that stuff <detrout>there's some annoying bioinformatics packages which are "not for commerical use" <paroneayea>I think there will probably eventually be a non-canonical repository that we won't advocate, because it won't be hard for people to do <davexunit>detrout: talking about bioinfo packages specifically, some of our contributors have had pretty good results asking the maintainers to change their license. <mark_weaver>detrout: licenses that disallow commercial use are nonfree <detrout>Uh. I called it open source not free software <davexunit>detrout: non-commerical software does not meet the Open Source definition. <mark_weaver>does the open source definition allow discriminating against commercial uses? <davexunit>the OSI publishes the official definition of "open source", and restricting commercial usage is not allowed by that definition. <mark_weaver>I think clause 6 of the OSD disallows such discrimination <paroneayea>that's the term microsoft used to use for basically "you can view it but it's not free" <davexunit>there was a really crappy website that cropped up awhile back with a new proprietary license that allows viewing the code but was otherwise proprietary. <mark_weaver>anyway, whatever term you use to describe it, Guix requires software the complies with the GNU FSDG <detrout>Does that differ significantly from the Debian version? <davexunit>FSDG is not the DFSG, they just happen to use the same letters <detrout>Huh. the FSDG is more flexible about art assets than I expected <detrout>So you could include CC-BY-NC wallpapers in Guix but not in Debian? <mark_weaver>I don't think CC-BY-NC complies with the FSDG, even for non-functional works. <mark_weaver>the FSDG requires that for non-functional works, that "its license gives you permission to copy and redistribute, both for commercial and non-commercial purposes" <detrout>I personally wish there was a way to differentate between commercial as in charging to redistribute a software collection and commercial as in building a multi-billion dollar business without any cooperation. <detrout>but that's a complicated issue. and mostly am planning to stick to working things that are GPL or BSD licensed (KDE and Python) <detrout>I can want things that I know I can't have... <kristofer>detrout: elizabeth warren would like to discuss the social contract with you <detrout>Actually I should be less distracting.... <NiAsterisk>sidenote: I recently read and am about to send an open letter about a book where the author did not understand the gnu philosophy at all. there were many many wrong chapters, one of them basically said "people are afraid of 'Open Source'" and "all technological advances in the last 25 years were only to build surveilance" etc. really bad for a first version of a book.. I'll put it on multiple sites for access. <NiAsterisk>I had to read it because somebody gave it to me on my birthday, and the introduction already had mistakes. I would have not bought it myself. <detrout>Many of the technological advances have been pressed into service for surveillance as that was what they were able to turn into revenue <NiAsterisk>yes, but stating the only advances which happened were for surveilance and profit leaves out the existence of floss. <detrout>No I agree the books position is wrong <NiAsterisk>i can't quote it here, no motivation to type out long german sentences <kristofer>she talks about the social contract in reponse to Obama's "You didn't build that" speech I believe <detrout>Also many of the current rich got rich on the backs of their parents <kristofer>political philosophy ultimately drives me to GNU; I still need to wear shoes though :-/ <NiAsterisk>that's a problem I need to brainstorm about with an idea which could get income, as in how to do business on top of a AGPL software. <NiAsterisk>basic usage free, usage of the offering end: pay-what-you-can . or pay a fixed price of a selection of price settings. etc.. good thing I have time and it's only at the point of the initial idea. <Gamayun>which book is it you are discussing? <NiAsterisk>it was only me who was tlaking about a book, the rest wasn't about it <NiAsterisk>published in 2015 at randomhouse verlag: Christian Nürnberger - "Die Verkaufte Demokratie - Wie unser Land dem Geld geopfert wird" don't read it. half of the book will get you so mad you get my idea, getting in contact with the publisher and author. and because I like open discussions and informed costumers, I will publish it on my sdf.org account so that I can link to the rather long text from an review I'll <NiAsterisk>I have high hopes that the author did not choose the title himself. <NiAsterisk>and that you can make him think about the failures and the lack of his research. <kristofer>I am a fan of Elizabeth Warren's ideas though <NiAsterisk>i'm just waiting for a friend to correct 2 paragraphs <NiAsterisk>i usually don't care about content of books (mostly because the authors are long dead or because it's just fiction), but if somebody manages to be so incompetent in research and tries to present it to readers in a non-fictional book like it's even remotely true, I have to file a bugreport for him and kindly point out what's wrong and where he can get more info. <NiAsterisk>it was just very unpleasant reading the 5 or 6 chapters dealing with technical things, and it read like he spend 10 minutes in google. <rekado>detrout: "kalisto switched to BSD" --- oh, really? Nice! <detrout>well that was a quick google and me skimming <rekado>detrout: do you have a source for that? It still says "for educational and research ... purposes". <detrout>i have the bad habit of not fully reading things <detrout>I've tried to argue that doing a dual AGPL / Commerical license would be better than that kalisto license <detrout>while accomplishing roughly what they wanted <rekado>kristofer: "I still need to wear shoes though" -- what does that mean? <NiAsterisk>free software hackers are too lazy to put on shoes. <rekado>detrout: yeah, selling exceptions would indeed be better. <rekado>to python hackers: what package should provide "gtk.glade"? <rekado>I'm led to believe that it's pygtk, but our pygtk package is insufficient in that it does not satisfy the import of gtk.glade. <detrout>for debian it looks like its in either python-glade2 or python-gtk2 <detrout>Though the source package for thoses is pygtk <NiAsterisk>every list of lists.debian is on gmane... surfraw, on alioth.lists.debian isn't. meh. <rekado>hmm. Then maybe there's something wrong with our pygtk package. <rekado>probably needs glade as an input <NiAsterisk>pygtk-2.24.0-r4 in gentoo: >=gnome-base/libglade-2.5 <rekado>The following modules will NOT be built: gtk.glade <a_e>rekado: I agree about the ugliness of our xfce. <a_e>And it definitely is us; on Debian, something changes when you choose another theme, such as Xfce instead of Raleigh. <kristofer>rekado: there's a phrase about being so communist that one can't wear shoes.. <a_e>Maybe. Themes one can choose from the Xfce menu. <fhmgufs>To change the theme you need to define GTK_DATA_PREFIX <fhmgufs>If you have them installed in your user profile to /home/a_e/.guix-profile <a_e>They are in the system profile I presume. Like all of Xfce. <a_e>Okay. So this looks like a bug. I can click on a theme, there are several ones in the menu, but nothing changes. <fhmgufs>a_e: Just define this variable. Couldn't you try it? For me (non GuixSD) it worked then. <a_e>But this needs to be defined before starting xfce, no? <a_e>It I define it now in a terminal, it will have no effect. <a_e>Another question: Does anyone know how to make "top" look like before? With processes sorted by CPU usage. <fhmgufs>But you can define it in the /etc/profile file of the system. <fhmgufs>Although I think that it should be added to the default profile file. <a_e>It looks as if something needs to be done globally. <fhmgufs>I don't use Xfce, so I don't know. But this theme changing program has a command, right? <a_e>No idea. I am discovering Xfce via its menus. <a_e>xfce4-appearance-settings apparently. <fhmgufs>But I think the other programs need to know the themes, too. <rekado>a_e: about "top": colours (aka red) can be disabled by hitting "z" and then "W" to write the configuration file ~/.toprc. <fhmgufs>But maybe try: 'GTK_DATA_PREFIX=blabla xfce4-appe...' <a_e>rekado: Thanks! I knew the first one, but not the second. <a_e>But also I would like to turn off the tree view - just a flat list ordered by CPU percentage. <fhmgufs>But really: this should be added to the /etc/profile file. <rekado>(and then "W" to update the config file) <fhmgufs>a_e: (themes) I think Slim will also execute your ~/profile. So you could add it there. <a_e>rekado: Thanks, very nice! <rekado>by default xfce4-appearance-settings seems to be looking in two paths: /gnu/store/9wjk84h37mjpf49442brqdfq95r3xx1p-gtk+-2.24.28/share/themes/Adwaita/gtk-2.0/gtkrc and /home/rekado/.themes/Adwaita/gtk-2.0/gtkrc <detrout>is there a way to install %base-packages using guix package -i ? <rekado>I'll restart it with the GTK_DATA_PREFIX set <a_e>fhmgufs: The .profile approach does not seem to work. The file does not exist under GuixSD. I created it with content "export XXX=YYY". Then in my terminal, $XXX was not set. <mark_weaver>fhmgufs, a_e: I haven't read the whole backlog, but the problem with GTK_DATA_PREFIX is that it cannot be used to add both the user profile and system profiles <mark_weaver>I think we need to modify the relevant code to support a variable that can support a search patch <fhmgufs>But for one user it is a helping solution. <a_e>What I do not get: Where are the themes in xfce4-appearance-settings coming from? Because there is a list, just changing themes has no effect. <rekado>yay, it works with export GTK_DATA_PREFIX=/home/rekado/.guix-profile <fhmgufs>So you have your themes in your user profile? <a_e>fhmgufs: htop is fine for me, too. <rekado>hmm, but it doesn't seem to stick. It only works for xfce4-appearance-settings. <rekado>fhmgufs: I have themes in both my user profile and in the system profile. <fhmgufs>I think you should use the ones from your system profile then. <rekado>yeah, the system profile stuff is more recent. <mark_weaver>a_e: regarding 'top', try typing "V". it toggles forest view <a_e>Yes, recado told me already. Thanks! <rekado>I'll play with this later. Maybe patch GTK sources as well. <fhmgufs>I didn't try the Xfce thing, but lxappearance worked for me. <fhmgufs>And my mate-control-center appearance settings are working, too. <paroneayea>do fonts need to be system packages to really work? <efraim>I have 2 installed to get terminology working nicely with guix on debian <efraim>which I guess doesn't really answer the question <efraim>I'm afraid to click on the graph for the interactive version <detrout>man the splitting of ipython into components for jupyter made a lot of packages <paroneayea>ACTION feels like he's bugging guix when he submits to bug-guix <paroneayea>however I also feel like I myself am helping guix when I submit to help-guix <paroneayea>davexunit: I submitted a bug about the python2 abstraction stuff. <davexunit>paroneayea: there's a reason it's "bug-guix" and not "guix-bug" <NiAsterisk>I try to read into what's keeping tor-browser from being free, and how this can be patched, but that's so much to read I need to do this on its own and not as a side project between packaging 8 other things and writing texts. <wingo>ACTION doesn't understand why one would use tor-browser and not tor-ify an entire desktop <NiAsterisk>if I would have the choice to do that, I would, but I can't at the moment, that's why I am using Guix mainly. <civodul>davexunit: nice article about dependency graphs! and nice graph (d3?) <lfam>civodul, davexunit: link? <NiAsterisk>what is mknmz ? I am interested in starting to package namazu, but the infos I find on nknmz are in japanese if i see this right <civodul>would be nice to have that graph at gnu.org/s/guix/packages <civodul>ACTION looks around for JS savvy people <NiAsterisk>gentoo lists it in the config, no idea if it's optional or what it even is <wingo>civodul: i don't understand your mail about gnome-desktop-service. what do i need to change before landing it? :) <NiAsterisk>there are some dependecies, optional ones, for japanese processing. it's almost no hard work to get it build without that, the dependencies for japanese, I could add in later in a theoretical namazu:japanese output? <wingo>do we want a %graphical-services that never includes gnome/xfce/* ? <wingo>hmm, but i think i have no brain cells for that tonight, will catch you over email <NiAsterisk>what I mean to express after looking at one of the required packages for japanese processing: I can package fonts in languages i have not learned. but it's way harder if the information on software is only in languages you can't parse yourself. I would package namazu, and open a bugreport so that someone capable of japanese can package the :japanese output after reading through the 8 optional software packages <NiAsterisk>it would be interesting to do that in general, but I have trouble with charsets I have not learned yet :/ <civodul>ACTION running out of brain cells too ;-) <itorres>I'm running guix on NixOS. running "guix package -ni guix" I repeatedly got "substitute: guix substitute: warning: ACL for archive imports seems to be uninitialized, substitutes may be unavailable" <itorres>running "guix archive --authorize < .guix-profile/share/guix/hydra.gnu.org.pub" added acl lines to /etc/nix/acl. I was quite baffled until I copied that file to /etc/guix/acl and then the substitutions started working <itorres>is this a bug or a misconfiguration in my side? <detrout>And I don't know why since it seems to be os independent <iyzsong>itorres: yes, the public key need to be authorized manually, and be care of 'NIX_CONF_DIR' (better clear it) when running guix-daemon and 'guix archive --authorize'. <NiAsterisk>btw.. is there a git:daemon output currently, and if so, is there a shepperd service definition for it to run on specific folder and port? I'm filling up my todo lists <NiAsterisk>oh noes. my todo list for guix is now 1 paper page XD if it wouldn't be such a cool projects and at the same time combine altruism and learning, I would just wait and come back when everything I want is there. I have another paper page with projects which are all sharing time with guix.. <NiAsterisk>but i'll have it on my list.. will come to it at some point this year, iyzsong <iyzsong>ok, I always have things on my TODO list, but (intentionally) forget to check them :-) <lfam>Does anyone want to help me package nmap? I have a working package but it uses one bundled library. While packaging that bundled library, I realized it also bundles a BLAS implementation, so it would be good to try to use OpenBLAS in that case. <lfam>Anyone interested in picking it up? <lfam>The rest of the remaining work should be to delete all the bundled 3rd party code when unpacking, to make sure it isn't used. <NiAsterisk>iyzsong: I really want to get to learn more C and start contributing code to secushare and my own projects around gnunet .. but what I do at the moment with secushare and all the similar projects is also good <lfam>Actually it uses two bundled libraries, but one of them is "heavily modified" so I guess it should be used <NiAsterisk>anyone in berlin on 11th -12th next month? the LoganCIJ symposium is there this year. <lfam>I can push it to a wip-nmap branch somewhere for cloning <lfam>That sounds interesting but not exactly nearby ;) <NiAsterisk>yeah.. wasn't really cheap either :) I have odd preferences in money.. my bed broke yesterday (one half is still functional) and I rather invest ~200 euro for travel and expenses than buy a new bed soon <lfam>NiAsterisk: I've never understood why beds are necessary. A mattress is all you need ;) <lfam>And even that is luxurious <lfam>Furniture is such a racket! <NiAsterisk>yes. I want one of those better quality futons. what I bought is a bed was just a bad choice 4 years ago when the storm ruined my last bed <lfam>In that case perhaps the money was needed for a new roof! <NiAsterisk>I moved around much.. that was an old flat where the landlord did not care much about fixing. <lfam>I've lived somewhere like that. You can save a lot of money by not paying rent. Actually the last time I was in Germany was with money saved by not paying my rent :) <NiAsterisk>we plan on buying a house with land, couple of people. maybe germany, maybe iceland. depends on many factors. right now paying rent is the only option. <mark_weaver>for anyone who might be wondering how to change the Caps Lock key into Control on GNOME 3, without use of the gnome tweak tool, here's the magic incantation: dconf write /org/gnome/desktop/input-sources/xkb-options "['ctrl:nocaps']" 