<lfam>suitsmeveryfine: I was able to download that file using curl and decompress it just fine.
<NiAsterisk>even if I think it shouldn't be my task to fix obvious issues which are ignored or put way down the roadmap, wouldn't it be easier for python setup in guix if I provided a patch for a working setup.py which can then be send by someone who has an github account to the project upstream? not that I have ever written a setup.py, but documentation looks okay
<NiAsterisk>Peter Surda stepped in to fix this, but i don't get how they work now.. there's mailchuck/PyBitemssage as the dev thing, and then there's upstream which is still waiting, and peter surda has access i think
<lfam>I'm not sure that a complete revamp of a package's build system is an appropriate patch to apply in Guix. But if you make the patch I could try to upstream it. Although it would be much better if the patch author submitted it themselves. I won't have anything intelligent to say if they ask me questions about the patch.
<suitsmeveryfine>petter: ok, let's continue the discussion about the guide tomorrow or so
<lfam>Does bitmessage require a new build system to get into Guix? Can't we just do whatever nix did?
<lfam>Although I have to say I'm wary of all these unaudited crypto-messagers. I've been maintaining some private packages of similar projects because I'm not comfortable submitting untested crypto stuff to the "official" GNU Guix package repository.
<lfam>It would be good if one of those projects raised the funds for a proper audit
<lfam>Or at least had some recognized crypto expert on the team to give a thumbs up.
<lfam>I'm completely unqualified to make the judgement
<NiAsterisk>i have the opinion that they serve as good libraries for other projects which could merge functionalities in the near future. I really have like .2% clue about crypto if at all, I rely on what other people tell me they analyzed on an private audit level of security.. that's the middlepath for me
<NiAsterisk>there'S too much people working on reinventing the wheel. merging efforts will be better for all.
<lfam>I mean, if somebody eles submitted my private packages to Guix, I wouldn't object. But I don't want to be the one that vouches for the upstream code quality in those cases
<lfam>Does anyone know if ctan.org is a reputable source for Latex related packages? I can't find any in our tree, but latex2html only seems to exist on ctan.org now. And they are actually active, having recently merged all the Debian patches
<NiAsterisk>I see it like this, people already use bitmessage if it's not for the code security it's for things it provides which is distributed messaging. it's not audited, and if it would be mentioned in the package description that would be okay for me personally. people consent to use an unaudited software in this case
<lfam>That makes sense. There is tons of crappy / unaudited code distributed through the various gnu/linux distros.
<lfam>Although, since GuixSD has a postfix service, it could be very easy to have distributed messaging through email ;) I haven't tried the postfix service yet
<lfam>Declarative OS configuration could rescue decentralized email )
<NiAsterisk>if it's a bigger issue, we might need to write down what would be not very ideal to contribute, exceptions to make or how to handle them. (case: supernewencryption-stuff: code not audited, please mention in description that it is not audited (in words accessible to everybody))
<lfam>It's not a big issue, it's just my personal desire to not be like that poor person that broke openssl in Debian for several years.
<lfam>If there is an issue it can be raised on the mailing list in response to specific patches, in my opinion.
<lfam>So, I'd say, please package bitmessage, and perhaps it can be described as "experimental" in the package's description.
<suitsmeveryfine>why is the installer building so many packages? I thought building from source was just an option
<NiAsterisk>it's difficult for me personally. on the one hand, there's quality and security you normally don't think about. then projects like gentoo maintain a large set of patches which is not merged to upstream.. this is not ideal. otoh, the current scenario of applications out there is not ideal, and people should be free to choose what they think they might want to test in free software.
<lfam>suitsmeveryfine: Did you do the `guix authorize` step to allow substitutes?
<lfam>You should not have to build anything from source except perhaps linux and bind, because those were updated today and hydra.gnu.org may not have substitutes available yet. If it is building ncurses then something is wrong
<mark_weaver>a few things have been pushed to the repo recently that aren't yet built, e.g. linux-libre-4.4 with a fix for CVE-2016-0728.
<mark_weaver>suitsmeveryfine: oh, if it's building ncurses, that's bad.
<lfam>If you didn't do `guix pull` before `guix system init`, you should. That is like `apt-get update`. Otherwise, you are building package recipes that are out of date and no longer covered by the hydra binary substitute server
<lfam>suitsmeveryfine, mood: I recommend you spend the time to read the manual. We would like it to be completely sufficient. I am making notes of your issues so I can patch it. So, please be vocal when the manual it not sufficient so it can be improved. And feel free to improve it too! We are very open to new contributors :)
<mood>lfam: It would be nice if the manual gave some hints regarding the actual partitioning of the drives in the manual, even just an example invocation of parted, or a link to a more helpful page in the Parted manual
<lfam>NiAsterisk: That looks like a really comprehensive guide to how to manage block devices. I don't know whether or not its appropriate for a specific distro manual. Perhaps you should raise the question on guix-devel?
<NiAsterisk>lfam: yes. I have some thoughts behind "there could be a wiki", i'll take notes and send to the devel lists soon
<mark_weaver>suitsmeveryfine: he already built a ramdisk, but it was missing most of the modules that the latter commenter added.
<suitsmeveryfine>builder for '/gnu/store/blablabla-dhcpblabla.drv' failed with exit code 1
<lfam>NiAsterisk: Not saying I haven't found these total-comprehensive-how-to-unix Gentoo and Arch wikis useful. But I think that in the long run the best approach is to upstream the documentation to parted, etc
<mark_weaver>wow, tar said that the file changed while it was being read. that's strange.
<lfam>The file changed as it was reading? That seems wrong...
<lfam>suitsmeveryfine: Can you share your OS configuration?
<lfam>And the specific command-line invocation you started the build with? Also, are you out of disk space?
<lfam>Seems like the error could be wrong in this case
<NiAsterisk>possibly, and because people have to start somewhere + get into using the distro somehow, having entry docs at a centralized place. there are pros and cons for wikis. one con would be, if there will be a smart GUI for setup, wiki is not really needed when dcumentation is fool-proof.
<lfam>Also interesting that bind was updated today, correct mark_weaver?
<mark_weaver>sneek: later tell Emas: all of those programs are available in Guix packages. ifstat is part of the 'iproute2' package. apache httpd is in the 'httpd' package, and nginx is in the 'nginx' package.
<sneek>Emas, mark_weaver says: all of those programs are available in Guix packages. ifstat is part of the 'iproute2' package. apache httpd is in the 'httpd' package, and nginx is in the 'nginx' package.
<mark_weaver>I think you will find that it will take less time, and have better results, to figure out how to get the software in Guix's packages working than to build and install those packages from source code yourself.
<Emas>mark_weaver and lfam: will i'm learning how to do that, i wanted ifstat to be my first package in guix but i ran into problems like this ld one
<lfam>Did you try making a package definition as shown in that link I gave earlier?
<Emas>but that's fine, i'll just learn how to build the package in guix
<Emas>lfam: i didn't receive the link, but was it to the gnu guix manuale?
<mark_weaver>lfam: I guess it will need a custom configure phase that passes a simpler set of arguments, and probably various other problems will have to be worked around, since custom configure scripts are usually far less robust than the ones generated by autoconf.
<lfam>I like this line in the nixpkg for latex2html: broken = true;
<mark_weaver>after you already have a working system, the commands that add a new system are safe, because they just add more stuff and then switch a symlink. but the initial installation with 'guix system init' is another matter.
<mark_weaver>lfam: actually, I would have expected latex2html to be part of the tex2html package, somehow.
<mark_weaver>it seems rather strange for tex2html to depend on an external latex2html package.
<lfam>Although `guix refresh -l` reported the lilypond user frescobaldi instead of lilypond. That's not what I expected it to do.
<mark_weaver>yeah, for some reason which I've never understood, it doesn't print the full list of dependent packages, but only a set of packages that, if rebuilt, would force rebuilds of all the dependent packages.
<lfam>It re-uses the code from `guix graph` now, right?
<mark_weaver>although it also sometimes drastically underestimates the number of dependent packages, because there are certain kinds of dependencies that it cannot see.
<taylan>to be honest, the traditional user management of Unix seems like an odd fit for *personal* computers. one could say it merely serves as a half-baked "sandboxing" mechanism for programs. https://xkcd.com/1200/
<davexunit>this is where I think Hurd would be an improvement, despite conforming to various POSIXy things.
<davexunit>I'm actually not sure what the problem with Chromium is
<davexunit>it's definitely a technical challenge to package.
<davexunit>but from a licensing standpoint... I don't know.
<mark_weaver>I haven't investigated Chromium, but the most likely issues to come up in a browser are: (1) steering the user to installing non-free software, e.g. plugins, and (2) no spyware. I vaguely recall that every key that you type into the location bar might be sent to Google immediately, which might be considered a spyware issue.
<mark_weaver>recently, there was an issue with Chromium where it would silently download non-free software the first time it was run. I don't know what the status of that is.
<davexunit>I would have expected to see an icecat/iceweasel like fork of chromium by now.
<NiAsterisk>rather offtopic, but what am I looking for in notes how to do it, when I want: clone guix from savannah, push local changes to notabug and keep it up to date? I want to do this for when I don't want to take my harddrive with me... do I git clone guix from savannah, then add my remote at notabug and then?
<davexunit>NiAsterisk: just add multiple remotes, yeah.
<NiAsterisk>checkout the savannah part, then push to notabug? that easy? oh :D
<erased>non-guix related question but you guys seem to talk about a variety of stuff. What are some email services that don't require thing such as phone verification or already having an email account?
<erased>And tor-friendly is a very nice thing to have since I use tor heavily
<erased>Their manifesto is nice as well, I agree with their views.
<erased>Though guaranteeing a logless service presents a false sense of security, so I don't see the point in making such a statement
<NiAsterisk>i used to hang out on their irc.. there was an bigger outage just before the opening of this new big bank in frankfurt, several activsts networks got ddos'ed some for 30 dayss and more, but A/I handled it very well, one server replaced, 4 days later it was okay
<NiAsterisk>yeah, I don't agree with many of their technological claims these days
<NiAsterisk>my intention years ago was to start a similar collective with people I know, but my view on security etc changed.
<mark_weaver>erased: I've heard many good things about riseup.net
<mark_weaver>(I haven't tried them myself because I run my own email server)
<NiAsterisk>i heard they timeout very often, people often ask me about alternatives to riseup
<erased>people always yell at me when i start thinking about running an email server
<erased>seems like it could take weeks to get a riseup email address.
<erased>anyone here by chance have an invite code for riseup?
<NiAsterisk>i don't know about the signup process at protonmail anymore, but i would avoid them. I gave them two last feedbacks before destroying my last address, it's horrible that they push such bad things to a public beta
<lfam>The Zsh test suite runs a Zsh script. How can I provide a Zsh interpreter for the build environment which is building Zsh? Should I use the interpreter built in the build phase?
<bavier>the texi2html tests are failing because of diagnostic output from perl
<mark_weaver>suitsmeveryfine: it looks to me like the only thing that didn't get done was to create a symlink in /mnt/var/guix/gcroots/ pointing to the grub.cfg file, which will protect some things from garbage collection.
<mark_weaver>suitsmeveryfine: so, here's my suggestion: for now, don't run "guix gc", and we'll get the symlink fixed up.
<NiAsterisk>slightly offtopic.. dd if=/dev/urandom count=1 2 > /dev/null | uuencode -m - | sed -ne 2p | cut -c -8v1/oVN+S i have discovered this snippet while cleaning out my room, but the cut part seems wrong.. any idea what could be wrong with cut after -c ?
<mark_weaver>suitsmeveryfine: okay, so you'll need to reinstall from scratch, but with a modified OS config, with additional modules added to the initrd. see section 7.2.11 (Initial RAM Disk) of the Guix manual
<rekado>usbkbd is used for USB HIDBP (boot protocol), that's not the right module for generic USB HID hardware
<mark_weaver>suitsmeveryfine: I would recommend omitting the module.blacklist from the OS config for now.
<suitsmeveryfine>mark_weaver: is it not possible to just update the system from inside the live installer?
<mark_weaver>civodul: can you answer suitsmeveryfine's question above? ^^
<rekado>HIDBP and HID are mutually exclusive; you can only use one or the other.
<mark_weaver>once you have at least one working system generation, it's trivial to play around with new systems with safe rollback.
<civodul>suitsmeveryfine: hmm i don't think it's possible
<mark_weaver>but if you have problems with the initial install, it's a major pain.
<civodul>suitsmeveryfine: or maybe it is: chroot into the root file system and run 'guix system reconfigure' from there