<mark_weaver>davexunit: I don't know exactly, because there were some problems to fix along the way, and I ended up restarting it a number of times, rebuilding some parts multiple times, but I get the impression that using 2/4 cores, it takes certainly less than 2 days to get to 'hello'.
<mark_weaver>(I've been using only 2 cores, because of overheating problems when I use more)
<civodul>mark_weaver, davexunit: one of you (or ae) should run 'guix publish' on the Novena :-)
<mark_weaver>although actually, I recall hearing that xobs implemented automatically throttling in the kernel, so if you have an up-to-date kernel from them, you can probably use all cores without a problem.
<davexunit>mark_weaver: well, it could be a "private" server, to bootstrap other devs. there would be no obligation to build every package, either. if the binary isn't available on your machine, we'll just have to build from source.
<davexunit>but if it can save that initial 2 day bootstrap period, that would be great.
<davexunit>civodul: is there an easy way that I could host armhf binaries on my x86 vps?
<mark_weaver>davexunit: oh, sure, I could give them to you, and many a few other folks.
<davexunit>not for the build farm, but just for us devs.
<carif_>mark_weaver, fyi for the next guy, ftp://alpha.gnu.org/gnu/guix/gnu-system-demo-0.6.qcow2.xz is an operational kvm image file that can be run directly just to see if works. I'd still like to learn how to roll my own, so you pointed me on the correct path...
<paroneayea>davexunit: and the "apache model means corporations are more comfortable" method doesn't seem to be helping either!
<paroneayea>Everyone I know who is deploying OpenStack has forked. Not publicly, but they have. No one can run the mainline code, it’s a disaster, and OpenStack politics of the “Big Tent” are going to make that problem a lot worse. Because everyone has their own fork, very little code is making it back upstream. Several of my last jobs, I tried to make OpenStack upstream better. To tell you how well that went, look at my stackalytics profile (if I
<paroneayea>even have one any more). I haven’t committed code in over three years, and I wanted to help. I tried to help. I failed.
<alezost>rekado-: autoloads are not really useful for pdf-tools, but if 'pdf-view-mode' was autoloaded, you could add ("\\\\.[pP][dD][fF]\\\\'" . pdf-view-mode) to 'auto-mode-alist', so once you open a pdf file the required pdf stuff will be loaded.
<alezost>But generally it is useful: the point is you don't need to require a whole package. Instead some commands are being autoloaded, so if you install some "super-foo" emacs package, which has "super-foo" command, you may use "M-x super-foo" right away because it is autoloaded, without putting (require 'super-foo) or alike in your init file
<alezost>rekado-: you don't need to require …-autoloads, it is done by guix-init
<alezost>the same thing happens with packages installed by emacs package system (aka "package.el"): any "~/.emacs.d/elpa/foo-0.1" dir has "foo-autoloads.el" file which is loaded on emacs start
<sneek>cirno9, alezost says: inkscape is needed for grub logo. I think you can use (bootloader (grub-configuration (device "/dev/sda") (theme (grub-theme)))) to prevent using inkscape
<yenda>My display is connected in HDMI to my graphic card but I don't have 1080p resolution. In xfce config it caps at 1280*1204. I could live with it but it gives a blur effect and a black margin. Any clue how to fix this ? use xrandr ?
<yenda>alezost: I installed it with guix package -i xf86-video-ati yesterday, should I had it to the config ?
<alezost>yenda: if you use slim, then installing this package in your user profile will not take any effect: Xorg will see only the modules listed in that "xorg.scm"
<alezost>yenda: but you may try to check how it would work. Did you also installed xorg-server?
<yenda>alezost: I installed with the basic desktop config file
<yenda>so there is xorg in (use-package-modules) not in pcakages unless it's included in %base-packages
<iyzsong>yenda: (use-packages-modules) is just a alias for (use-modules (gnu packages ...))
<alezost>yenda: ok, so "which X" gives you something, right? if you have time, we can try to check if X with ati driver will give you the desired resolution, and if so, then we definitely should add ati to that module list
<cirno9>I was wonddering how to build my own guix package for a program not in the packages list? I found how to defien a package in the docs but its not enough, and I found https://pastee.org/2fa3h which has more info
<yenda>alezost: I have time otherwise I wouldn't be installing an alpha system :D ty for your help.
<alezost>yenda: So we want to run X server with ati driver (and other required modules). At first install some packages (you may easily delete them (rollback) later): "guix package -i xorg-server xf86-input-evdev xf86-video-fbdev xf86-video-modesetting xf86-video-ati"
<alezost>yenda: ok, now you can run X server. Try this: sudo X :1 vt8 -nolisten tcp -logverbose -noreset -modulepath "$HOME/.guix-profile/lib/xorg/modules" (don't forget to return with Ctrl-Alt-F7 or whatever)
<yenda>if there was no X server before what was handling the graphical interface ?
<alezost>yenda: there is X server but running on DISPLAY :0 and vt7 (I think), that will be another one
<iyzsong>yenda: maybe it need firmware.. anything interesting about 'radeon' in the output of the `dmesg' command?
<yenda>On reddit people say that the opensource driver for that card works almost flawlessly
<alezost>hm, so the ati driver apparently loaded, but the X server failed to start. I'm afraid I don't know what to do with those "/dev/dri/card0: No such file or directory". Strange thing is that you have the same errors in your Xorg.0.log, but it loaded nonetheless
<yenda>I wonder how many other downside to linux-libre there is
<alezost>I would say it's more a downside of proprietary firmware (or software)
<yenda>alezost: that's the truth but that's not how the world works
<yenda>when others do silly things to get some functionnalities most people don't care as long as they have the functionnalities
<yenda>alezost: but now I'm puzzled, I don't think there is such a thing as a free firmware for a gpu card. So nobody on linux-libre has one ?
<alezost>yenda: I think that if there was such a thing, than the linux kernel would have it and linux-libre would have it too
<yenda>so my best chance to get a proper resolution and keep linux libre is to get rid of the card and use the integrated gpu of the motherboard ?
<alezost>I think so, if the problem is really in the proprietary firmware. To make sure, try to install vesa (and perhaps remove ati): "guix package -i xf86-video-vesa" and then try to start X server on vt8 again.
<mark_weaver>Intel graphics are best supported right now, although nouveau may work well on some nvidia models.
<mark_weaver>a few years ago, when I liberated a friend's macbook with nvidia hardware, I found that the GPU was prone to lock-ups when using nouveau, but heard that some boards work more reliably than others, and things may have improved since then, I don't know.
<civodul>my understanding is that high-end boards don't work very well with Nouveau, whereas lower-end boards are fine
<yenda>I might be wrong but as far as I understand them gpus are like servers you send computations too and they render the result on the screen. If you put a proprietary firmware in them it makes them blackboxes for graphical computations. It's not perfect but I can live with it. How can they harm the system as long as it's just the firmware and not the driver ?
<mark_weaver>as the intermediary in the primary form of I/O from the computer to its user, the graphics system is a core part of the computer. I don't think it makes sense to think of it as a mere "server".
<yenda>mark_weaver: I wonder if the laptops at http://www.thinkpenguin.com are entirely free as well. Seems like they run Triskel so it might be, and they have much more recent hardware
<mark_weaver>yenda: sure, if you don't mind the non-free BIOS, including ME/AMT.
<mark_weaver>newer intel chipsets include an independent processor that runs a complete proprietary OS with access to the network devices.
<mark_weaver>supporting a backdoor to remotely reconfigure your computer
<yenda>sound like being librist is harder than being raw vegan
<mark_weaver>it's easy if you're willing to sacrifice a little speed
<mark_weaver>if you make freedom a priority the next time you purchase a computer, I'll be glad enough :)
<mark_weaver>in the meantime, there is a 'kernel' field in the operating-system declaration, where you can reference a kernel of your choosing. and you can create private packages using GUIX_PACKAGE_PATH or keeping your own private branch in git.
<yenda>you wouldn't be glad if I'd tell you I recommanded a chromebook to my grandfather :D
<daviid>yenda: no, it _is_ possible, we do it, as i said it took me 7 years to convince a university here in brasil, which received prior to my investment, money from microsoft ... and now, the lab [not the university yet] and the department are running debian, teaches image processing using fiji [it used to be a non free s/w from germany and belgium] ...
<yenda>Well of all Apple users I'm the only one I convinced to switch :D
<daviid>as mark_weaver we all _have_ to do our litrtle drop in the ocean ...
<yenda>daviid: you are talking about an organisation not individuals
<mark_weaver>yenda: I can understand that trying to talk about these issues seems futile most of the time. but it's a mistake to think that it is.
<daviid>yenda: this 'organisation' are run by individuals
<mark_weaver>that work is composed of people talking to their friends, and the change that this makes is so slow that it seems glacial.
<daviid>as mark_weaver said, you speak to one, 2 or 10, then tehy strat to speak to their friends ...
<yenda>it's even worst if you want them to switch to total freedom
<mark_weaver>but when enough people do it, it *does* make a difference. some people slowly start to think about it more. some of them get involved. some of them take it into account the next time they buy a computer. not many, but some.
<daviid>our mission is to teach what is free s/w and why people should be concerned
<daviid>at first the head of the department did not even wanted to hear about free s/w, he said: we receive licenses for free from microblah
<mark_weaver>I wonder how deeply you have thought about the consequences to central authorities controlling almost all computers in the world.
<yenda>For instance I made a friend switch (to Ubuntu not even free software). But for her studies she needed adobe with wine. Still better than vista, but she wasn't really happy with all the troubles
<mark_weaver>among other things, this is the kind of centralized power on a mass scale is the kind of thing that enables a switch to more dictatorial forms of government.
<daviid>do you give drug to your children? he said surely not why? well because teaching in a university using non free software is like giving drugs to the students, slowly they [think they] become dependent ...
<yenda>daviid: yes absolutely. in my university we had to code C in visual studio to use some gtk libraries
<daviid>he was chocked, but start ed to think about it. then i added: if you do not do it fro you or for the students, do it for your kids
<yenda>probably because the teacher was too lazy to figure out an other way
<daviid>yes comfort is the usual response, 'why should do i bother, it works fione. i'm used to it ...'
<mark_weaver>the internet can cut both ways, and it depends largely on whether people have control over their computers, and on the software and protocols they use to communicate over the internet.
<yenda>mark_weaver: also how would you convince your company to give up Office ? What alternative do they have in a world where appearences are the number one concern. Nobody will want to give up PowerPoint
<mark_weaver>yenda: I don't understand what you meant by "you have office360 but whats the point of having a free computer software if you give up the data ?"
<mark_weaver>I'm not very familiar with presentation software, but I'm skeptical that free software doesn't have good tools for producing presentations. have you looked for replacements and found them severely lacking?
<yenda>Steap: what kind of feedback ? l5 dépendence -> dépendance
<mark_weaver>I know that Libreoffice includes presentation software, and there are other tools as well.
<yenda>mark_weaver: it's nowhere close to the office suite in terms of functionalities and rendering. It's the feedbacks I've had from many people who tried it.
<yenda>mark_weaver: office360 is office in the browser so you can use it in any browser, the backend is in the cloud
<mark_weaver>yenda: you seem to be more inclined to just give up on this.
<mark_weaver>I guess perhaps you don't think it will be very important in the end.