<guest`>ewemoa: no, generated html is already hard enough (ecmascript worse), WebAssembly is to aid "mobilization" (people needing a "computer" for things like running, so we have government surveillance): Firefox OS, ...
<ewemoa>guest`: it will be nice if readability is improved
<ewemoa>mark_weaver: i'm getting a failure for guix download with "Bad Date header" -- similar to what's mentioned at https://gnunet.org/bot/log/guix/2013-10-16 -- using wget -S, i see that the Expires date uses PDT instead of GMT -- is there some good work-around?
<civodul>ewemoa: could you send the command and output to email@example.com?
<civodul>sounds like a bug in Guile's web client and/or the HTTP server it's talking to
<efraim>civodul: i was looking at gnu/packages/games.scm, and I noticed the #:use modules aren't alphabetical. I dont want to make basically a "whitespace patch" but is there something planned to change that?
<mark_weaver>we are a 100% free software distro, no blobs, so hopefully your wireless device doesn't need one.
<ewemoa>mark_weaver: yes, i came across a number of xcb packages, but i don't see xcb-util-cursor, and http://xcb.freedesktop.org/dist/ shows a specific tarball for it -- i didn't turn anything up grepping through gnu/packages, but perhaps i missed something
<ewemoa>mark_weaver: thank you for that pointer :)
<mark_weaver>I guess from my point of view: I don't care what your name is or where you live.
<mark_weaver>However, I do care about being able to establish trust in a contributor, and therefore some way to know that your submission next week is coming from the same person who sent it this week.
<mark_weaver>right now, anyone could log in as ewemoa and pretend to be you.
<mark_weaver>bavier: sure, that would be a way to establish trust in a contributor, by their signing key. but it doesn't solve the copyright problem.
<mark_weaver>civodul: my biggest concern about accepting patches over IRC and paste sites is that we have no clear record that someone submitted this new code to us and intended for it to be part of guix and released under the GNU GPLv3.
<mark_weaver>Steap: yes, I think changes to python are probably best for core updates
<mark_weaver>rekado_: iiuc, each entry in .links is a hash of the file contents. when a file is added to /gnu/store, .links is checked to see if a file with the same contents is already in the store, and if so, another hard link is made.
<davexunit>right now I give the user control over which namespaces they want to unshare and what file systems they want created.
<davexunit>though I suppose that if the user doesn't want a new mount namespace then all the file system stuff should be skipped... hmm...
<Steap>so why is Docker so bad but bare containers so good ?
<davexunit>Steap: we first must make a distinction between the core technology and Docker's UI and domain specific things.
<davexunit>I define a linux container as a combination of namespaces, cgroups, and a chroot/pivot_root.
<davexunit>Docker builds on this base with a particular type of workflow and design.
<davexunit>Docker containers are defined by Dockerfiles, an imperative list of instructions to perform to build a static disk image, or rather a series of static disk images.
<davexunit>these images are unioned with a union file system and the resulting file system is mounted inside the container process.
<davexunit>my argument is that the use of raw disk images is insufficient for addressing the problems of reproducibility and leaves little opportunity to take advantage of a cache, though of course Docker tries.
<davexunit>since Guix uses a purely functional model, we get system-wide caching/deduplication quite easily.
<davexunit>in Docker you will only not waste space if your various containers use the exact same base images and do subsequent configuration steps in the *exact* order as in other Dockerfiles.
<Steap>I don't get why you do not achieve reproducibility
<davexunit>the proliferation of tools needed to make all this stuff work makes my head spin.
<davexunit>we may not have many software packages or system services, but I am always very happy to upgrade my guix software and guixsd system that generally "just works"
<davexunit>the functional package management paradigm is the clear winner to me.
<mark_weaver>davexunit: ideally, I would like my web browser to not have the ability to read or write arbitrary files of mine, nor debug attach to my processes, nor log my keystrokes when one of its windows is not in focus, etc.
<davexunit>the plan is to have a container daemon that runs as root and builds containers for other users, like the guix-daemion.
<_`_>mark_weaver: Within an unprivileged container I could just use the DISPLAY env of the X server belonging to user (on the host) spawning the container, and this just ran the client on the host's X server.
<davexunit>"Whilst chroot offers something of a lowest common denominator environment for all Unix operating systems, it’s likely to be the path of least resistance for a native OS X implementation that avoids the use of virtual machines running Linux."
<_`_>is that actually implemented and something they ship?
<davexunit>mark_weaver: I was wondering, since test suites often use random numbers, is there anyway that we can set the seed to something fixed so that the test suite always runs with the same set of random numbers?
<davexunit>in ruby land, we use a library called timecop to deal with time in test suites, but it's not a system level thing. it just stubs out methods in the relevant Ruby interfaces to return fixed values.
<davexunit>I wonder if we can address it at the system level...
<davexunit>I bet if we could it would have been done by now.
<mark_weaver>and a lot of other stuff in /proc like cpuinfo, and the kernel being used, etc.
<mark_weaver>and then there's software that actually tries running CPU instructions that are only implemented on certain CPUs.
<davexunit>can one bind-mount over /proc/cpuinfo? I bet not.
<mistnim>awell davexunit I'm poor, I'm not going to change my laptop, so you are not really encouragin the usage of proprietary software. It's better to help me use guix and eventually contribute I think. Next time I have money I will buy a 100% free laptop
<mistnim> this is already like a 7 years old computer, it's not like a bought it yesterday
<davexunit>mistnim: well we can try to help with your ethernet chip if the module is in linux-libre
***civodul changes topic to 'GNU Guix | http://gnu.org/s/guix/ | 0.8.3 is in the works | https://savannah.gnu.org/forum/forum.php?forum_id=8273 | This channel is logged, see <https://gnunet.org/bot/log/guix>.'
<zacts>davexunit seems so excited about it, that he is getting a headstart on waiting outside the MIT bookstore in a tent all night, just like the crazy friday after thanksgiving americans do for other things.
<zacts>but davexunit is such a nerd he will only do this for a scheme or lisp book
<zacts>davexunit should do a parody short documentary that shows him waiting in a tent all night to guarantee he gets the book the next day