<mark_weaver>davexunit: there's an environment variable that needs to be set for modprobe to find the modules, and I vaguely recall that it fails silently if it can't find them in the FHS standard place /lib/modules
<wingo>but i'm really ignorant and still learning lots of stuff :)
*amz3 will add a command to create dot output for package depdendencies
<amz3>I though there was something like this already
<jackdaniel>hm, still no clue, geiser just won't start when invoked with geiser-repl--start-scheme (narrowed down from guix-all-available-packages), throwing an error err's value is (error "localhost/37246 System error") ; (tried different port, same result)
<jackdaniel>probably I've changed something when configuring avahi
<alezost>jackdaniel: no problem; you may stay with (setq guix-use-guile-server nil). The only disadvantage would be: you can't search for packages while there is some active operation in *Guix REPL* buffer.
<jackdaniel>hm, I believe all will be fine with GuixSD, I just have to create "dirty"-linux package to have network working and I want to switch
<alezost>jackdaniel: relating to "localhost" problem: you may try the following: 1. Start guile server in some console: "guile --listen" and 2. Use "M-x connect-to-guile". It will prompt you about host and port (use the default 37146). Try both "localhost" and "127.0.0.1" for host.
<JamesJRH>mark_weaver, fchmmr: But aside from these technical details of which language you or I or they prefer, it really annoys me that Guix keeps getting branded as the Parabola or Triquel counterpart to NixOS, when in fact it differs not only by philosophy of libre software, but also by language technicalities.
<mark_weaver>okay. I haven't implied that it's like Parabola or Trisquel.
<mark_weaver>but of course we make comparisons to Nix. it's based on precisely the same concepts, after all, with almost the same daemon.
<mark_weaver>same store. it's possible in fact that have both Nix packages and Guix package coexisting in the same store.
<mark_weaver>(although they'd be based on different libraries and compilers right down the bootstrap)
<JamesJRH>mark_weaver: Not you, fchmmr has implied this alot. I think even nearly every time that I've mentioned NixOS in a conversation with him. (Hence I also pinged him.)
<mark_weaver>let's put it this way: if you like the concept behind NixOS but want a fully libre system, then Guix is the only game in town.
<mark_weaver>but indeed, whereas Trisquel and Parabola are almost identical to their non-libre counterparts, Guix has *completely* different package descriptions, a different way to describe the packages, and a different system for building the packages.
<JamesJRH>Guix is a conflation of 2 very different missions. 1 of which I kind of either don't agree with, or at best am neutral to, but not willing to make the effort to relearn something that I consider, at best, on-par. The other (the software liberty mission), I'm totally behind and this is a big aspect of my life.
<mark_weaver>so I guess the fact that Scheme is not a purely functional language is a big problem from your perspective?
<mark_weaver>(which we intend to replace with Scheme as well, at some point)
<JamesJRH>I kind of like the Nix language. I only have I think 2 things I don't like about it, and 1 of them actually isn't anything to do with the language but the tradition of 2-space indentation. The other being something strange going on with quoting quoted dollar signs, which I have to look-up each time.
<JamesJRH>17:53:19 < mark_weaver> so I guess the fact that Scheme is not a purely functional language is a big problem from your perspective? ← Yes.
<JamesJRH>17:54:13 < mark_weaver> or rather, a mixture of Nix language and bash? ← There have been discussions of replacing this with pure alternatives on the nix-dev mailing list.
<mark_weaver>even though our package descriptions are written in a purely functional style? I literally can't think of a single example of a package description that mutates state in the Scheme code.
<JamesJRH>I want to move away from Bash and such, but to something pure, when possible.
<mark_weaver>and even if the rest of our code, our use of state is *extremely* rare.
<mark_weaver>and most of it is memoization, which Haskell does implicitly.
<JamesJRH>mark_weaver: The thing is, then why would I move from Nix, which already is pure, to Scheme which is pretty much pure, if you say so? Even if it's as pure as Nix, I'd be relearning something that's just different, for about the same practical benefit.
<JamesJRH>I don't know, but I can try it. These things are on my todo list.
<JamesJRH>18:00:34 < mark_weaver> I suspect that they're idea of "unfree" is not as vigilant as ours ← My idea of unfree /is/ as vigilant as yours, so if I determine that it's not truly nonfree, I'll nag them on the mailing list.
<mark_weaver>e.g. I vaguely remember reading that if you try to install firefox, Nix wants to install flash player as well.
<JamesJRH>I have Firefox installed, but apparently no Flash player. However, Totem seems to be presenting itself as ‘a Flash video player’, but I've never got it to work.
<JamesJRH>mark_weaver: Currently I don't /depend/ on any proprietary software on my system, I just need to get round to installing LibreBoot, fitting my new Atheros 11n WiFi card, and installing Linux-libre.
<mark_weaver>okay, here's the thing. most people who run NixOS will end up tempted to install proprietary software.
<JamesJRH>I've had this on my todo list for over a year, but I'm struggling with other issues that are delaying me in many ways.
<mark_weaver>to the extent that it becomes popular, most people will not set that flag, or will at some point be tempted to remove the flag, because it's so easy to do.
<JamesJRH>18:06:36 < mark_weaver> okay, here's the thing. most people who run NixOS will end up tempted to install proprietary software. ← I wish to remain part of the NixOS community in order to be part of the persuading of other community members to keep to software liberty, and not be tempted.
<JamesJRH>mark_weaver: I'm more in to the ‘capture and educate’ philosophy, allowing people to come from any technological standpoint and be directed toward software freedom.
<mark_weaver>to be honest, my impression is that the real reason is that you are placing more importance to a dubious technical advantage.
<JamesJRH>fchmmr: I need to backup, and I have a serious problem with managing my files to the point of disability. I want to write software to help me, but I don't know enough to write what I need.
<jackdaniel>JamesJRH: keep it in your home and rsync it regularily
<mark_weaver>and I can sympathize with where you are coming from. purely functional programming is important. it can be done in scheme, and non-purely functional programming can be done in Haskell too, btw.
<JamesJRH>I've also found 2 people that might be able to help. The first did work-for-hire and I nearly went into collaboration to get what I need, but then he got a job and was so busy that he didn't reply to my email that actually specified what I was thinking of.
<mark_weaver>and I think you done see the advantages that Scheme has over Haskell in this application.
<JamesJRH>The other person went silent a couple of weeks ago. :-/
<fchmmr><JamesJRH> fchmmr: I need to backup, and I have a serious problem with managing my files to the point of disability. I want to write software to help me, but I don't know enough to write what I need.
<fchmmr>just use rsync, and put the command in your crontab
<JamesJRH>mark_weaver: I wish to have a 100% libre NixOS + LibreBoot on both my ThinkPad X60 Tablets, and 100% libre NixOS on my BeagleBone Black and PandaBoard ES. Eventually I'll conquer my phone too, which is why I've been contacting Fairphone and people behind Neo900 trying to do my best to persuade them to get RYF certification. I'm not something who thinks it's okay to have nonfree blobs in the kernel
<mark_weaver>unfortunately, the Neo900 definitely won't be eligible for RYF based on my conversation with them. they are committed to using a wireless chipset that requires a non-free blob to be uploaded to it.
<JamesJRH>fchmmr: I don't know why I find it so hard, but I do. I'm seeing BtrFS and CoW as something that'll majorly help in how I plan to back things up, without worrying about incremental backups.
<jackdaniel>making backups on the same drive might be unwise
<JamesJRH>Currently I'm using BtrFS on my backup external hard drive, but not on this laptop yet (I've got a BtrFS partition that'll install NixOS 15.06 onto though).
<JamesJRH>I don't know how to make the kernel syscalls to control BtrFS's CoW though.
<mark_weaver>JamesJRH, fchmmr: and now, this conversation should probably move back to #libreboot :)
<JamesJRH>Seeing as the people I was going to ask to work-for-hire seem to have become unavailable or gone completely silent, I should probably get on and bite the problems myself. I've attempted before (years ago, using Python), and failed, but this time I'm more experienced.