IRC channel logs

<davexunit>civodul: I was also thinking that 'guix deploy' would be a good name, and then thought of the exact same issue with the action of the same name :)

<civodul>:-)

<paroneayea>civodul: what's the hash built from in guix? is it the derivation file itself?

<paroneayea>file/contents

<paroneayea>trying to figure out how (gexp->package) will be sure to retain a unique hash

<davexunit>paroneayea: a couple things are the build script and inputs

<davexunit>the target platform

<davexunit>some others that I'm forgetting...

<phant0mas>that PATH_MAX definition not being supported in hurd is causing sed and patch to fail as well

<DusXMT>in debian, in sed, they set PATH_MAX to 200, claiming: MAX_PATH is not defined in some platforms, most notably GNU/Hurd. In that case we define it here to some constant. Note however that this relies in the fact that sed does reallocation if a buffer needs to be larger than PATH_MAX.

<civodul>paroneayea: yes, what davexunit says, basically it's a hash of all the inputs plus system string

<DusXMT>in patch, they just set it to 8192, claiming: make GNU/Hurd happy

<civodul>sed and patch being GNU, they should be able to do better :-/

<civodul>phant0mas: it'd be ideal if you could send a patch upstream, but otherwise just throw in a "CPPFLAGS=-DPATH_MAX=8192" or some such

<civodul>you're going to encounter this many times though

<civodul>to the point that we might want to simply patch unistd.h, as sad as it may be

<DusXMT>8192 is a pretty long line of text, that's over a 100 terminal rows... I think that as a temporary fix, it could do, to get the system up and running

<civodul>well, 777, whatever :-)

<civodul>i guess i'll merge core-updates real soon

<civodul>it has emacs and icecat built for x86

<paroneayea>civodul: how to make a fake package and specify a source that doesnt' make guix freak out?

<paroneayea>for the gexp->package

<paroneayea>I've stubbed out most of the other fields...

<civodul>paroneayea: you can leave (source #f)

<civodul>that's fine

<paroneayea>whoa okay

<paroneayea>so how does my emacs know to indent run-with-store differently than say, (list) ?

<paroneayea>I didn't tell it how to do that...

<davexunit>paroneayea: .dir-locals.el

<davexunit>a.k.a emacs magic :)

<paroneayea>ohhhh right of course.

<paroneayea>wait, no! this isn't in such a place though.

<paroneayea>I'm making a package.scm in mediagoblin's git repo!

<davexunit>paroneayea: oh, then it must be the name that scheme-mode intelligently handles

<davexunit>'with' is a key that the form takes 1 arg and a thunk or body form of some sort

<civodul>paroneayea: yay for Guix + Mediagoblin!

<paroneayea>:)

<davexunit>paroneayea: now, package up all the python dependencies! :P

<davexunit>I did 30 awhile ago before I got burnt out.

<paroneayea>davexunit: heh :)

<davexunit>civodul: would you consider it bad form to potentially use multiple store connections throughout the duration of a program?

<civodul>davexunit: i think so, yes :-)

<davexunit>I'm implementing the 'provision' hook for <platform> 'guix deploy', and while most of the time I don't think a store connection would be needed, in the case of a local VM I want to build something.

<davexunit>okay

<civodul>make everything a monadic procedure?

<civodul>so then the store connection can be threaded through them

<davexunit>yeah, I suppose so.

<davexunit>will try that.

<civodul>that can sometimes be annoying

<civodul>but if the procedure doesn't actually need it, it can still be lifted

<civodul>like (lift my-normal-proc %store-monad)

<davexunit>yeah

<paroneayea>civodul: http://pamrel.lu/d8c5a/ I think you said inputs can be derivations, but when I try to run this with guix environment I get:

<paroneayea>guix environment: error: /home/cwebber/devel/mediagoblin/package.scm:43:4: package `web-assets-' has an invalid input: ("assets-script" #<derivation /gnu/store/c3gglxzf38v6vw9m7s51k2hw0pxdk2jh-list-files.drv => /gnu/store/gmv6ffb4l1lp7jzpbr64q2qvbsgnbk46-list-files 5c59c30>)

<davexunit>paroneayea: does it build with 'guix build', though?

<civodul>oh

<civodul>paroneayea: indeed, it cannot be a derivation, but it can be a derivation file name (silly!)

<paroneayea>note that's obviously not the right derivation, I'm just trying to get *a* derivation working

<paroneayea>ah!

<civodul>sorry for the confusion

<davexunit>civodul: it should be simple to add a patch to match derivations, too, right?

<paroneayea>yesssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss

<paroneayea>got it linked!

<civodul>davexunit: yes

<davexunit>paroneayea: yay!

<davexunit>I'm excited for this

<davexunit>glad you are working on it.

<civodul>paroneayea: re gexp->package: http://paste.lisp.org/+35Z5

<davexunit>together, we can conquer the world!!

<civodul>:-)

<paroneayea>civodul: awesome

<civodul>the thing is, until wip-build-systems-gexp is merged, the thing must be an sexp, not a gexp

<paroneayea>you should check that into guix ;)

<civodul>yes, when wip-build-systems-gexp is in

<paroneayea>civodul: what's the @@ in outputs?

<davexunit>module reference syntax

<davexunit>@ for public symbols, @@ for al

<davexunit>all*

*paroneayea reads "Using Guile Modules" in the fine manual

<paroneayea>oh I see

<paroneayea>does this also allow getting around dependency DAG issues, kind of like how people "import foo" inside of functions when otherwise there would be a dependency cycle?

<paroneayea>neat

<civodul>no, it's just that gexp-outputs is currently private, so @@ allowed me to cheat :-)

<paroneayea>:)

<davexunit>paroneayea: we have to use 'module-ref' for the dependency cycle thing sometimes

<paroneayea>okay, now I'm getting excited

<paroneayea>I think this is starting to look like a pretty feasible route.

<paroneayea>I should get lunch and then do Real Work (TM) (contracting, that is) but I'm excited this is on track

<davexunit>:)

<civodul>heheh

<paroneayea>the btrfs-subvolumes thing came up on http://sandervanderburg.blogspot.com/2015/04/an-evaluation-and-comparison-of-snappy.html?showComment=1430478179877#c3488496727928781327

<paroneayea>and I wonder if btrfs-subvolumes could also be something explored by guix, I'm not sure it makes sense or not

<paroneayea>but it could at least satisfy the symlink haters

<paroneayea>(by adding a different complex system?)

<paroneayea>note that the btrfs subvolumes thing is how gnome intends to handle containerized app deployment while keeping things deduplicated, from what I've read

<civodul>the problem is that the file system is a too low-level layer

*civodul considers moving {dbus,upower,colord}-service in a single desktop.scm

<civodul>davexunit: does that make sense?

<davexunit>civodul: gnu/services/desktop.scm ?

<davexunit>makes sense to mel

<davexunit>me*

<civodul>yes

<davexunit>runs 'guix gc' for the first time in a *long* time and re-downloads some of the world

<davexunit>probably a year's worth of builds I just purged

<civodul>you must have a big hard disk :-)

<civodul>i often run "guix gc -C1G" or similar

<davexunit>just a 120GB SSD in my laptop.

<davexunit>the store was several GB but not too large

<davexunit>and TIL about the -C flga

<davexunit>flag*

<civodul>ok

*davexunit works on 'provision' hook for 'guix deploy' some more

<davexunit>civodul: thanks for the suggestion about an OS -> OS procedure.

<davexunit>Added that as a 'transform' field to <platform>

<civodul>sounds good

<davexunit>nice to have all this VM code already available. makes prototyping a lot easier.

<davexunit>civodul: off the top of your head, would you expect dmd to "just work" when run as PID 1 in a PID namespace?

<davexunit>local VM deployment is a success :)

<davexunit>monads really are magical

<paroneayea>damn, I have monad-grokking envy still

<paroneayea>maybe using monads in guix will help

<davexunit>paroneayea: it's helped me *a lot*

<paroneayea>I still fear I have to learn haskell to learn monads, even though this is unlikely to be true.

<davexunit>you don't need to.

<davexunit>I'm comfortable with scheme, so learning them in scheme is nice.

<davexunit>I just wrote this pretty cool provision -> boot sequence in monadic style that is neat

<paroneayea>I tried to make it through http://okmij.org/ftp/Scheme/monad-in-Scheme.html but haven't really made it yet

<paroneayea>maybe I should try it again.

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<Vous>Sorry :/

<paroneayea>Vous: I'm guessing there was an error somewhere.

<Vous>lol

<davexunit>whoa

<cehteh>looks like the error was the error :)

<cehteh>tada ... my GuixSD kvm works .. finally

*cehteh makes a image backup ... better safe than sorry

<davexunit>cehteh: yay!

<paroneayea>btw civodul, one thing that I *think* your gexp->package didn't do, that I kind of expected it to

<paroneayea>was to put the derivation supplied by the package onto a path

<paroneayea>so it was executable

<paroneayea>maybe it shouldn't, I don't know, though that's what would make it useful to me probably?

<davexunit>yeah, it should install the script to /bin

<paroneayea>yeah that's what my current thing does

<davexunit>nice

<paroneayea>hm

<paroneayea>though my route currently requires (open-connection) :\\

<davexunit>monad

<paroneayea>not as functional as it could be probably

<paroneayea>davexunit: yeah I guess

<davexunit>civodul: I see that there are user-groups and user-accounts fields for services, but I'm not sure what extra work is needed for the service to actually use them.

<davexunit>I'm writing a postgresql-service, and I need to be the 'postgres' user before launching the daemon.

<civodul>davexunit: the service just needs to be told about the user name, and then it can switch to it

<civodul>(to drop privileges)

<davexunit>civodul: but I do the switch manually in the activate script, right?

<civodul>no, i suppose postgresqld (?) just does that by itself

<civodul>it probably needs to be told what the user name is, in a config file

<civodul>see bitlbee for example

<davexunit>okay

<davexunit>I'll see what postgresql does

<davexunit>I think we need a gnu/services/utils.scm for common things

<davexunit>like chowning a file given a username

<cehteh>mhm .. network in kvm is unstable

<cehteh>fuu

<civodul>cehteh: weird

<cehteh>i am used to it, kvm gives all kinds of trouble

<cehteh>4.0 kernel on the host btw

<cehteh>something is extremely wonky there, 'halt' just hangs

<civodul>uh, that could always be a bug in dmd, or some service failing to stop

<civodul>dunno

<cehteh>haha .. something like that

<cehteh>now dbus didnt start up ... meeh :D

<cehteh>good that i made a backup of the working image

<civodul>is it 0.8.1 or master?

<cehteh>0.8.1 .. bootstrapped from debian8

<cehteh>with the kernel in master networking doesnt work at all

<cehteh>the devices (either virtual nics or virtio_net) show up .. but configuring them times out

<cehteh>i try to track that down later, for now i am happy when i just get it running and being able to ssh to it

<cehteh>(i havent even figured out how to setup ssh yet :D ... and changing the locale bugs somewhat too)

<cehteh> http://www.gnu.org/software/guix/manual/guix.html#Using-the-Configuration-System .. is the start of the example there outdated? new installes use (use-service-modules ..) or do i get something wrong there?

<davexunit>civodul: is it possible to unquote a regular scheme value, such as an alist, into a gexp?

<civodul>davexunit: yes, with #$ (ungexp)

<cehteh>meeh

<cehteh>... broken again

<civodul>cehteh: use-service-modules is just a shortcut for use-modules

<davexunit>civodul: oh, awesome.

<davexunit>you've thought of everything :)

<cehteh>i tinhk i give up for now, trying with a new kvm/kernel someday

<cehteh>final test, starting another vm and see how stable the network is there

<cehteh>other vm works :/ ..

<cehteh>is there some receipe somewhere to build a vanilla kernel in guix, preferably from git?

***pfo_ is now known as pfo

<cehteh>.. even weirder, while haveing another vm running in parallel where the network works, the network on the guixsd vm stays stable as well

<cehteh>methinks before starting with deterministic package managers, he has to get deterministic computing to work here

<cehteh>ohno ..hangs again

***pfo_ is now known as pfo

<davexunit>civodul: turns out I need to explicitly change the user account before runnin g the postgres daemon

IRC channel logs

2015-05-01.log