IRC channel logs

*jgrant checks to see if we have audacity.

<jgrant>Nope.

<davexunit>jgrant: glad you volunteered to package it! ;)

*davexunit sent 'guix environment' patch to the list

<davexunit>today was a good day for free software.

<davexunit>I'll have to dust off guix-web next now that I know that civodul tried to use it. :P

<jgrant>davexunit: I'll probably a go with it, eventually.

<jgrant>Stumpwm is on the top of my list right now.

*davexunit pushes trivial patch to fix jack-1

<davexunit>guix-web choked on the license field, which used a list of symbols instead of a list of licenses.

<jgrant>Does GSD ship SSH?

*jgrant is considering doing this boostrap install on his Linode instance.

<davexunit>jgrant: yes, GNU lsh and openssh

<davexunit>I don't know how to use lsh still, so I use openssh :P

<davexunit>the client at least.

<jgrant>This is probably a stupid/messy way to do it, but I want to see what is needed to get thi going.

<jgrant>Okay, Arch GNU+Linux is booting via Linode. Gave it 5gb of the 25 ... should be more than enough I'm hoping.

<jgrant>Okay, goal is to have GSD on my Linode instance by Valentine's day.

<davexunit>very romantic.

<jgrant>Lovely, would have been cuter. :^P

<jgrant>I mean, it looks like the bulk o the work is just remiplementing https://nixos.org/nix/install

<jgrant>What is "nix-###-system", "nix os"?

<jgrant>Ah, it's a prebuild binary.

<jgrant>Do we even have prebuilt binaries?

<davexunit>no, just install images

<davexunit>well, hydra has pre-built guixes :P

<jgrant>If I were do build one for x64, you think it would get accepted for hositng?

<jgrant>For myself, it's irrelevant -- because I can just self host this on my local box, but if people want to do similar, I would think it to be helpful.

<jgrant>Maybe once I set up my Linode, I can host the binary on it -- if Ludo or similar don't buy into the "need" for it. :^P

<jgay>hello everyoe

<jgrant>jgay: o/

<jgay>Guix System Distribution is finally on the endorsed distros list <http://www.gnu.org/distros/free-distros.html>

<jgrant>\\o/

<jgay>I am very excited to be able to add it to the list and I look forward to doing a press release on fsf.org and hopefully a more substantial blog post as well.

<davexunit>\\o/

<davexunit>jgay: that's great news.

<jgay>davexunit, did a really nice article in the last Bulletin we sent out and I'm hoping to work with him on flushing out an equally good blog post in the near future

<jgay>davexunit, yes, I saw the email from RMS just now and decided to go ahead and update gnu.org immediately instead of waiting until tomorrow

<jgay>it'd be nice if someone coudl spot check my work actually :-)

<jgay>I also emailed Ludo asking him to look over the language and suggest revisions

<davexunit>jgay: the only thing that comes to mind is adding "The " in front of "Guix System Distribution", but perhaps it isn't necessary.

<davexunit>I'll defer to ludo on language.

<davexunit>jgay: should I hold off denting about it for any reason?

<jgay>davexunit, no, you can dent about it if you'd like.

<davexunit>cool :)

<jgay>davexunit, I made a little change ot the description to make it look liek the rest

<jgrant>How would one denote more than one license (dual licensing) for a project?

*jgrant is mocking up a rust.scm package.

<davexunit>jgrant: use a list of licenses

<jgrant>Oh, we don't have a clang build system? :^/

<davexunit>rust doesn't build with gcc?

<davexunit>bummer.

<jgrant>Actually, I think it may. At the very least it needs llvm.

*jgrant goes to check again.

<davexunit>oh...

<davexunit>well you might as well use clang at that point I guess?

<jgrant>I /really/ need to look into build-systems ... at this point, I need and/or desperately want one for CL and Rust.

<davexunit>it's not too difficult to make a new one, but it takes some time to learn the structure.

<jgrant>Well. I have some time I suppose. I think stable has around another 2 months or-so till 1.0.0 drops.

<davexunit>a lot of people are very excited about rust, but it does nothing for me.

<_`_>rust can be built with gcc, doesn't need the llvm

<davexunit>yay!

<jgrant>davexunit: I'm more-so excited in that my transfer school I'm attending in the Fall or next Spring, their course is like 85% C++ and this looks like a much nicer alterative to practice in my freetime.

<jgrant>_`_: Hm, I wonder why it's not opting to use such things on this GSD install and complaining about LLVM... I have the whole toolchain for GCC.

<davexunit>is there a configure switch you need to turn on?

<jgrant>Not sure; I'm also sure it never helps when I pick to do these things when I'm half asleep. :^P

*jgrant is asking in the #rust channel.

<_`_>oh

<_`_>it pulls it's own source of the llvm itself

<_`_>that's going to be a problem aye

<jgrant>I guess maybe figure out a trivial build system in that case then.

<davexunit>_`_: ugh, it bundles llvm?

<davexunit>when will people learn to stop bundling?

<_`_>aye

<_`_>but

<_`_>it has --llvm-root

<_`_>for system wide installs of llvm

<davexunit>nice

<davexunit>good

<_`_>llvm might be good to package if it's not (maybe for mesa?), clang isn't necessary if not desired

<jgrant>WE have both clang and llvm.

<davexunit>we have llvm

<davexunit>beat me to it :

<davexunit>:

<davexunit>:)* ugh

<jgrant>We don't have clang?

<davexunit>no we have both

<jgrant>Yeah, we have clang.

<jgrant>We also have mesa.

<_`_>so then should be good : >

<_`_>just need to piece it together

*jgrant checks if there are any other big depends for Rust.

<_`_>but maybe you might need to fiddle with ./configure more, it bundles 4 other repositories with other things

<jgrant>I can't be doing this in a sane way; Using the AUR depend list for a rust-git package -- to find depends...

<jgrant>According to it: shared-mime-info, curl, gcc, libffi, python2.

<davexunit>check their configure.ac file

<davexunit>if they use one

<davexunit>wouldn't be surprised if they were too hipster for that, though.

<jgrant>_`Yeah, nope.

<_`_>hopefully the dependencies listed in README.md are all you need

<_`_>along with llvm

<jgrant>Yeah, that's not bad.

<jgrant>Assumng this is right, nothing to package.

<jgrant>If I do manage to get this a-goin, I can't imagine I'll be able to figure out how to pipe Cargo into Guix though. :^P

<_`_>gl

<jgrant>It's certinaly on my backburner, but on my radar. First and foremeost, is getting (probably clisp for) Stumpwm going.

<jgrant>I am very happy I took the full leap to GSD though, because it should strongly force me out of my comfort zone. :^)

<mark_weaver>oooooh!! Guix System Distribution on <https://www.gnu.org/distros/free-distros.html> woohoo! \\o/

<_`_>my goal next month is to try guix on various user accounts of mine, having it where the package management is lacking.

<davexunit>hmm, I need a way to uniquely identify packages.

<davexunit>guix.el uses object-address, but that doesn't work for me because this is for guix-web, and I want deterministic URLs.

<davexunit>now, I could use the package's hash, but that involves computing the derivation for every single package.

<davexunit>and of course, name+version can yield more than one result as well.

<davexunit>s/as well//

<davexunit>don't know why I said that.

<rekado>sneek: later tell davexunit Thanks for fixing the license list of jack-1. I'll update my patch of jack-2 to do the right thing.

<sneek>Okay.

<rekado>sneek: botsnack

<sneek>:)

*mark_weaver works on updating icecat to 31.4.0

*taylanub doesn't like the free-distros.html page; will lobby for a proper gnu.org/download page eventually :P

<rekado_>I have a minor problem with GCJ. When it's installed ~/.guix-profile/bin/gcc points to /gnu/store/d1mjf5ipdkx4qjjv06vh6sd5p6h3drv1-gcj-4.8.4/bin/gcc

<rekado_>But this GCC cannot actually compile any C code.

<rekado_>would it make sense to remove the "gcc" executable from the GCJ package?

<rekado_>or to rename it?

<davexunit>hmmm tricky

<sneek>davexunit, you have 1 message.

<sneek>davexunit, rekado says: Thanks for fixing the license list of jack-1. I'll update my patch of jack-2 to do the right thing.

<rekado_>whenever I want to build stuff I always get this error now: "configure: error: C compiler cannot create executables", because gcc does not point to a C compiler.

<davexunit>I don't know enough about gcj to know if it's okay to remove that

<davexunit>it certainly looks problematic and needs to be dealt with.

<rekado_>the same goes probably for the other binaries like gcc-ar, gcc-nm, gcc-ranlib, etc.

<rekado_>it's unlikely anyone would really want to install GCJ, because it's not very functional. It is a build dependency for IcedTea6.

<rekado_>but if someone actually does install it, they end up with a somewhat borked profile.

<davexunit>maybe it would be best to strip them out.

<davexunit>you could try that as a first step and see what ludo and mark think. they're better equipped to make the right decision about that stuff.

<rekado_>Problem is that I'm not at all knowledgeable about GCJ :-/ But I can play around with this and read the docs.

<rekado_>huh, seems that Fedora 21 doesn't even ship GCJ.

<rekado_>gfortran should have the same problem.

<rekado_>it also comes with gcc, gcc-ar, gcc-nm, etc

<rekado_>on Fedora these binaries are not included in the gfortran package.

<davexunit>then removing them in an extra build phase sounds like an okay move to me.

<rekado_>I'll better raise this on the mailing list, though. I think the `custom-gcc` procedure should take care of this for all alternative languages offered by GCC.

<rekado_>(for GCJ the same approach should be taken, because it doesn't use custom-gcc.)

<davexunit>sounds good.

<civodul>Hello Guix!

<davexunit>hey civodul

<davexunit>did you see the good news?

<civodul>no?

*civodul hopes this is not ironic

<davexunit>civodul: https://www.gnu.org/distros/free-distros.html

<davexunit>take a look :)

<civodul>yay!

<civodul>woooow!

<civodul>\\o/

<civodul>thanks jgay and whoever was involved!

<davexunit>jgay dropped in here last night to let us know about it.

<civodul>wonderful

*civodul removes an item from his "road map" slide :-)

<davexunit>;)

<davexunit>FOSDEM won't be streaming the talks will they?

<davexunit>I hate waiting months to see your talks! :P

<civodul>heh :-)

<civodul>ISTR that jgrant found a link for streaming

<civodul>not sure if that will actually work

<davexunit>yeah, streaming is a crapshoot.

<civodul>heh

<davexunit>I haven't done the timezone conversion, so I'm not even sure if I'll be at my computer when you are speaking.

<davexunit>I will probably be snowboarding.

<civodul>it's at 3PM tomorrow, so something like 9AM at your place i guess?

<civodul>a bit early ;-)

<davexunit>yeah, I'll be on the mountain.

<davexunit>I'll do what I usually do. read the slides and then months later listen to the talk.

<davexunit>I fixed up guix-web a bit last night, but the install button still doesn't work because the monad stuff changed and I haven't figured out how to repair it. ;)

<civodul>ok, i need to git pull

<civodul>i'm being told FOSDEM will indeed live-stream talks

<davexunit>cool!

<davexunit>civodul: I've been trying to think of how to best create a UI in the web browser that allows for the things that guix.el does. it's tricky!

<davexunit>for one thing, guix.el maps object addresses to packages for unique identification, but I'm not in love with that because I'd prefer that URIs to guix-web remain valid when the web server is rebooted.

<davexunit>computing the derivation for every package in the system and using the hash would work, but it seems too costly and slow. I guess it's the only way, though.

<civodul>yes, that may be the only persistent and unique ID

<civodul>oh but "install" actually does something,!

<davexunit>yeah, it does stuff now, but it fails!

<davexunit>guix-web/package.scm has the 'package-install' procedure that's failing

<civodul>ok, it works now :-)

<davexunit>mail me a patch? ;)

<davexunit>civodul: do you plan to show this at FOSDEM? are there any last minute tweaks you'd like to see?

<civodul>i'll mail a patch once it's cleaned up ;-)

<davexunit>thanks so much!

<civodul>davexunit: yeah i noticed the CSS for, say, http://localhost:9000/packages/zile is kinda ugly

<civodul>i mean there's no margin on the left

<civodul>would be nice to just add one there

<civodul>(and a pony too)

<davexunit>civodul: yes, that's because I tried to integrate that page into the "single page app" that the packages and generations pages are part of.

<davexunit>but didn't make it due to not having a unique id for a package.

<civodul>ok

<davexunit>I'll toss a basic layout on that, though.

<civodul>neat

<davexunit>or just port what I have to the client.

<civodul>also sorting doesn't work

<davexunit>aw damn it, I broke it. :(

<civodul>anyway, no big deal, i'm happy with this already :-)

<davexunit>okay. two things to fix. got it.

<davexunit>the bit rot got to it. :(

<davexunit>I'll see what I can do on lunch break.

<civodul>and searches that yield zero results hang

<civodul>cool!

<davexunit>now that I wasn't aware of... it should just yield an empty array.

<davexunit>ohhhh I see the bug.

<davexunit>it shows the spinner when there are 0 pages of results, but it should only show the spinner when there are no packages loaded from the server.

<davexunit>I need to get a unit test runner setup.

<davexunit>so I can write some Jasmine tests for the JS.

<davexunit>hard to avoid nodejs these days, though ;)

<civodul>heh

<civodul>i need to go meet geeks for a beer, so ttyl!

<davexunit>later!

<rekado>ergh, I screwed up when creating the audio.scm patches. Will send an updated version for all the stuff tonight.

<mark_weaver>jxself: new kernels out!

<jxself>mark_weaver: Yes.

<jxself>It in process.

<mark_weaver>jxself: thanks!

<mark_weaver>I updated icecat to 31.4.0

<jxself>Woot.

<davexunit>yay!

<jgrant>davexunit: mplayer http://streaming.fosdem.org/fosdem/h1302.webm.m3u

<davexunit>jgrant: I get a 'server not found' error

<jgrant>davexunit: Should it be going on now?

<davexunit>I just didn't expect the server to be reachable

<davexunit>I need a script or something to download the stream while I am out tomorrow

*jgrant is asking in Fosdem channel.

<davexunit>as long as that url is valid, I could write something that will dump the stream to a file.

<jgrant>davexunit: Also, are you aware of http://blog.matejc.com/blogs/myblog/graphical-ui-for-nix/ ? Guy started in at the same place as you, via a web ui (but for Nix).

<davexunit>nope. never heard of this.

<davexunit>I was hoping to beat the Nix folks to something...

<davexunit>oh well.

<jgrant>I'm pretty sure that Vlc can capture streams.

<davexunit>yeah, I think so.

<davexunit>I just worry about what happens if the stream drops

*jgrant is staying up all night tonight and all day tomorow, to reset his sleep schedule ... shouldn't be an issue, assuming that is the right command and/or he can find it.

<davexunit>if anyone else happens to record ludo's talk, I'd be happy to receive a copy :)

*jgrant is grabbing vlc.

<jgrant>davexunit: I will make no promises, but if I can find the stream -- I mill try to set up a record.

<jgrant>Last year streaming was evdiently helped by Google on some of their servers, as per #fosdem's telling of history.

<jgrant>Yeah; The people making an attempt of helping me on #fosdem, don't seem to know.

<davexunit>that's alright.

<jgrant>That is a bit annoying that they haven't figured a way to effectively stream this.

<davexunit>conference streaming is notoriously difficult and prone to all sorts of failure.

<jgrant>Still, it's 15 years into the 21st century ... I am hoping we can do better. :^P

<davexunit>agreed.

<davexunit>there's a lot of hardware involved

<davexunit>a lot more additional equipment to bring to the venue

*jgrant wonders if something p2p would be better than a traditonal server-client model would work better with the general potiental of individuals flooding streams.

<davexunit>the trouble is, everyone would have to get the data from one or a few computers at first

<davexunit>and streaming is a live, instant thing.

<jgrant>davexunit: True.

<jgrant>We "just" need three, high speed (connection and processiong power) computers to work and automatically allocate people equally between them ... for every room.

*jgrant is hoping in a year or two, that this is a non-issue and he just ends up going to some of these confrences.

<jgrant>At least the ones stateside.

*mark_weaver uses 'streamripper' to rip audio streams, and it is quite good at reconnecting if it gets dropped, but it seems that it supports audio only.

<mark_weaver>(I have cron jobs to record some radio shows that I like)

<jxself>If the streams are in an Ogg container you can just use wget.

<jxself>And it can auto reconnect too.

<mark_weaver>davexunit, jgrant: I was just told on #fosdem that streaming.fosdem.org is wrong, it will be live.fosdem.org

<mark_weaver>(not yet announced)

<davexunit>mark_weaver: thanks!

<jgrant> mark_weaver: Ty!

<mark_weaver>I suspect that our icecat in Guix won't be able to play the stream, because it will probably be H.264 (just a guess)

<mark_weaver>but if we can find a URL that can be passed to mplayer, then I'll be able to play it and maybe save it.

<mark_weaver>our mplayer is currently the only video player I know of in Guix that supports H.264.

<jgrant>Well, is VLC or Mplayer built to support H.264?

<mark_weaver>(if they have a libre-friendly stream, I'll be surprised)

<mark_weaver>jgrant: look at the message just above your question

*mark_weaver goes afk

<_`_>so it's not using a webm container like the previously incorrect link?

<jgrant>mark_weaver: Ah, sorry.

IRC channel logs

2015-01-30.log