<rryoumaa>i'm interested in the idea of a gnu distro, which i perhaps mistakenly thought was named gnu distro, which uses guix as its package manager. please correct my terminology. also, how long do you think it will be before this os will be a viable replacement for debian? i'm sort of thinking maybe it will have some fresh ideas and be the first thing i'd be possibly convinced to switch to after using debian and not rea
<nully>So from what i understand, yes you are right. The GUIX is just the packagemanager for the GNU OS
<tadni`>rryoumaa: "GNU Distro" in the terminology we are trying to push now, is just meaning "a GNU Distro" not "the GNU Distro" ... we really don't have a name for it and after a fair amount of talking, until RMS deems whats this system actually is in the context of GNU... we should probably push to say the "Guix Generated Distribution of GNU".
<rryoumaa>will it be less viable in use of nonfree? i think the only contrib and nonfree i have are virtualbox something or other and some gnu documentation that is considered nonfree by debian. and i want to have always zero binary blobs. but wonder if there will be things dfsg is ok with that it will not be ok with.
<tadni`>I forgot who came up with that, they made an abreviation close to Dawn. I suggested the refactor it to dawn and they made it work like that.
<tadni`>rryoumaa: What do you mean by less viable with non-free?
<marioxcc>rryoumaa: I think that the DFSG approves the Artistic License 1.0, but the FSF doesn't. It's really a crappy license.
<rryoumaa>well, i guess what i want is all of the advantages of debian i currently enjoy, including enormous main repo, etc. and debpony, of course.
<nully>yes, FSF and DFSG and OSI all have slightly different takes on what makes a valid `free software license'
<mark_weaver>iyzsong: I also recommend trying Tor. it's fairly easy to set up from our system distribution. I just added (tor-service) to the 'services' in os-config.scm, and then in Icecat: press the Alt key by itself to show menubar, then Edit (menu) -> Preferences -> Advanced (icon) -> Network (tab) -> Settings (button). Click "Manual proxy configuration", then on "socks host" line: localhost port 9050, and click "SOCKS v5" button.
<civodul>Sleep_Walker: in that case A should lists be in 'propagated-inputs'
<mark_weaver>I cannot promise that it's a perfect setup, but maybe worth a try.
<iyzsong>mark_weaver: thanks, I'll try it next day :)
<davexunit>Sleep_Walker: I'm pretty much ready to merge your bullet package, but I don't think we need to use that patch file.
<mark_weaver>I'd like to try our xfce4, but I'm having trouble getting past an error dialog that shows up immediately on startup.
<nkar>iyzsong: but note that the tor project doesn't recommend to use vanilla firefox (or icecat, in our case). instead, they suggest to use tor browser
<mark_weaver>as I vaguely recall, the error dialog suggests that the problem may be that xfconfd (iirc?) is not running (dbus problem?), or that XDG_CONFIG_DIRS is not set properly.
<mark_weaver>I tried setting XDG_CONFIG_DIRS to $HOME/.guix-profile/etc, but that didn't help.
<iyzsong>mark_weaver: yes, you should set XDG_DATA_DIRS to xfce/share, and XDG_CONFIG_DIRS to xfce/etc/xdg
<nkar>iyzsong: also note that your isp will see that you're using tor (it may or may not be a problem)
<civodul>Sleep_Walker: when a build succeeds, the daemon scans the resulting item(s) for references to other store items; and then, it stores the set of references in /var/guix/db/db.sqlite
<Sleep_Walker>I was thinking about the correct solution but this was the least intrusive change I could think of - you can change your CFLAGS and -fPIC will be added in the package - you can set in on command line, environment or even system-wide make configuration :)
<civodul>Sleep_Walker: not sure what the problem is, but it's the responsibility of the package's build system to use -fPIC when needed
<Sleep_Walker>civodul: ad dependencies - in my case it should be figured then automatically
<tadni_>Is sneek's function "later tell x" or "tell later x"?
<mark_weaver>iyzsong: I tried setting XDG_DATA_DIRS=$HOME/.guix-profile/share and XDG_CONFIG_DIRS=$HOME/.guix-profile/etc/xdg but still get the same error. did I misunderstand?
<iyzsong>mark_weaver: it work for me, could you ensure xfconfd is running, then paste xfconf-query's output?
<civodul>rekado: apologies for the negative reaction of Karl Berry on bug-gnulib, BTW
<tadni_>rekado: Hit and miss, I learn a little in my down-time and plan to continue to do so for the forseeable future -- though it's not a strong focus atm, it is something I fully support and would like to see grow more in the future. But my nick, literally has the relationship of "student/studier" in Lojban, so yeah, I have some vested interest. :^)
<Sleep_Walker>civodul: ad -fPIC - you mean that patching should not be needed? is build system aware of all CFLAGS?
<davexunit>Sleep_Walker: you can add a phase to the build system that sets the necessary flags.
<mark_weaver>iyzsong: oh, so I have to start xfconfd myself? I thought maybe startxfce4 would handle that. how best to start that daemon?
<civodul>Sleep_Walker: by "build system" i meant the makefiles of the software you're trying to package; they're supposed to use -fPIC if that's needed (if they're broken, we can patch them as davexunit notes)
<iyzsong>mark_weaver: it can auto started by dbus session daemon, when dbus-daemon --session run with the XDG_DATA_DIRS.
<Sleep_Walker>davexunit: the thing is that I want only add flag and I'm not even aware of all the places where FLAGS could be set
<davexunit>civodul: Sleep_Walker used a patch file to do it.
<davexunit>I think that a new build phase would be better.
<iyzsong>mark_weaver: yes, I think startxfce4 should handle that.
<mark_weaver>iyzsong: ah, I guess I need to add it to the 'dbus-service' list of my os-config.scm ?
<mark_weaver>also, I didn't install xfconf in my profile. that might be a problem.
<tadni_>Pulling after a week of not, is taking 20+ minutes thusfar.
<mark_weaver>iyzsong: thank you do much for giving us our first proper DE! this is wonderful!! :)
<tadni_>mark_weaver: We've had Emacs for ever now though. :^)
<iyzsong>mark_weaver: ah, I'm glad to be useful :)
<mark_weaver>tadni_: yes, XFCE is a proper DE, IMO. e.g. many people who don't like GNOME 3 have switched to it (although I personally like GNOME 3)
<mark_weaver>(although of course, there are things about GNOME 3 which I don't like, but generally I like it)
<tadni_>Hm, so I'm assuming we don't have a /just/ "xfce" package expression right now? It might be a good idea to standardize the idea that a de's "straight name" would be a metapackage that would download that whole desktop.
<tadni_>So "gnome" would be a meta-package that installs the whole default GNOME desktop, and etc, etc.
<mark_weaver>most notably, I don't like windowmaker's Alt-Tab mechanism. since it doesn't show me the windows as I'm hitting Tab, when I had more than 2 or 3 windows it was hard to find the one I was looking for that way.
<civodul>nkar: thanks for testing the separate-/boot patch!
<th3kent>civodul: just saw your reply to bug#19248. i did start afresh and re-formatted my h.d.d, and re-installed. but i always get a kernel panic. although i get the message "Entering new prompt ...", i never get a guile prompt, as the kernel panic occurs immediately after. so, i don't know. am out of ideas too.
<civodul>th3kent: are you sure the root partition has the label "root"?
<civodul>the config you posted a while back uses that label