<tadni>There's the whole list so far, people feel free to add a name and explanation -- but finals week starts tomorrow ... so I'll be too busy till probably Thursday, to poll more people for suggestions.
<tadni>It's a nice nod to Scheme, but too is generic enough that applies to all processes which make up said distribution.
<nkar>later tell civodul I really like this: <tadni> Someone suggested to me "Geist" for a possible distro name, I just added it to the wiki page for "A reference to SICP, a collection of spirits/processes living in the machine".
<nkar>sneek: later tell civodul I really like this: <tadni> Someone suggested to me "Geist" for a possible distro name, I just added it to the wiki page for "A reference to SICP, a collection of spirits/processes living in the machine".
<sneek>civodul, nkar says: I really like this: <tadni> Someone suggested to me "Geist" for a possible distro name, I just added it to the wiki page for "A reference to SICP, a collection of spirits/processes living in the machine".
<tadni`>"We are about to study the idea of a computational process. Computational processes are abstract beings that inhabit computers. As they evolve, processes manipulate other abstract things called data. The evolution of a process is directed by a pattern of rules called a program. People create programs to direct processes. In effect, we conjure the spirits of the computer with our spells." -
<civodul>my understanding was that last week he wanted a quick settlement, but not so much now
<civodul>the good news is that we can keep up the good hack in the meantime ;-)
<tadni`>civodul: Well, it's a tough situation on all fronts. Obviously, we are going to want to push to just be deemed the canonical implementation to even the official "GNU Operating System" -- but if RMS doesn't want to give any one variant of GNU special treatment over the other ... then I don't see this likely.
<civodul>yeah i know, that would be a bit disappointing
<civodul>but that's not something we can influence much, and life goes on anyway
<tadni`>civodul: Well, the good news is though that even if we have to go the "just another distro" route for now, I'm hopeful that a few years down the line -- assuming that we have amassed a notable and/or large userbase, at least compared to the other Free Software Distributions. Namely Trisquel, gNewSense, and Parabola ... I can see a possibility that RMS might side with us in this sense. GNU Distro might have a lot of potential, but until
<tadni`>we get some solid results from the larger Free Software community, I don't think RMS will be persuaded by promises, but results.
<tadni`>But yeah, ultimately; It's not like we have to be stagnant because RMS doesn't appoint such a status to use. We can and should work to get it to be the most attractive Free GNU distribution out there.
<tadni`>And things should, at some point, all fall together.
<Sleep_Walker>before will guix be promoted as the right solution by GNU for people, could you learn deco to list known services?
<civodul>right, that's what we should be working on
<tadni`>Right now though, even if we could get "special status" by just spliting the GNU Distro up in a seperate table from the 3rd-party distros on free-distros.html; I'd be happy. But I can't see that happenning too, right now. :^P
<tadni`>"Guixotic - Combines Guix with the word exotic. Also happens to look a lot like the word quixotic, which means "exceedingly idealistic; unrealistic and impractical" which might be a nice little jab at ourselves. "
<Tsutsukakushi>the logo could be either gnu with a lance or guix logo with a lance
<nkar>mark_weaver: quick status update regarding coq. I ended up building the latest ocaml, which doesn't pass some tests, and camlp5. in a few minutes, I'll try to disable the testsuite and build coq using the mentioned versions
<nkar>Tsutsukakushi: proprietary software exists because people write it (they're getting paid to do it). if you want more free software, you need to write it or pay someone to do it. since you cannot donate money, you're left with the first option.
<tadni`>Tsutsukakushi: I would be very shocked if anyone one in my immediadate family, knew that word, except maybe my sister.
<tadni`>If it happened to flow a lot better, than yeah, I would want people to. The issue is, that while the two things are spelled very similarly, they aren't pronoucned so. And this is not a common word -- that I'm aware of, that a lot of people already know. So they not only would not likely get the reference, but trying to pronounce the word itself and/or mentioning to others in public without getting strange looks from the name alone is
<Tsutsukakushi>i talked to this 88 year old woman quite recently when i was fixing her computer
<tadni`>Tsutsukakushi: Also fyi, regarding the Finnish pronounciations -- it's been noted and declared somewhere (forgot where) that the GNU project official Language is English. We provide traslations to other languages, but unless a project specifies it's name to be in a differens language -- we use the American English pronunciation.
<Tsutsukakushi>and she called linux linus but that's ok, at least she knew what it was
<Tsutsukakushi>that was just to say that you can't please everyone, there'll always be someone who doesn't like the name or to whom it'll seem unintuitive
<tadni`>Tsutsukakushi: Anyone older than 70, I think is out of the core demographic of most computer usage.
<tadni`>Tsutsukakushi: The problem is, that age demographics does matter -- and I'm saying that because someone is 85 and using a computer. They are not the average case and due to life expereience outside the range of what a vast majority of other, regular computer users have experienced, they will likely be even less effected by any marketing.
<tadni`>mark_weaver: It is frustrating, that I'm being made out to be as-if I'm actively pushing an agenda.
<mark_weaver>maybe we should create a new channel #guix-marketing for these discussions.
<tadni`>I'm not even fundementally opposed to "Guixotic", I just seeing it be problematic in a few ways. And the response to such critcisms being "well, I don't think it really matters" get's me annoyed. Free Software has a notriously bad relationship with marketing and I think it's one of our biggest problems, and it being pushed under the rug as irrelevant ... is very scary to me.
<mark_weaver>I appreciate that you're trying to help us, but I feel overwhelmed with the quantity of thoughts from you on this subject lately.
<civodul>tadni`: it's an important topic, but it should not hide the more important topic of how to get things done
<mark_weaver>if everyone with an opinion on what we're doing wrong filled the channel up this much, we wouldn't be able to talk about anything useful.
<tadni`>civodul: I mean, I really kinda wish that we wouldn't even worry about a name at all and just keep releasing as "gnu-usb" until we hit stable ... then worry about it. Even then, until we get a graphical installer and possibly GNOME.
<Tsutsukakushi>someone who is 85 can be the average case or they can be someone with more knowledge than most people here
<Tsutsukakushi>full channel is far better than a dead, complaining about channel having activity makes absolutely no sense
<mark_weaver>this channel had plenty of activity before this new subject
<tadni`>Tsutsukakushi: Yes, someone who is 85 can be. The point is, statistically, it's not very likely at all for them to be well versed in computers. That is all irrelevant though, the reason you brought her up was that she called Linux, Linus.
<nkar>tadni`: I agree with mark. I don't mind a couple off-topic messages, but the above is too much
<Sleep_Walker>I have issue with X emacs (without -nw) leading to crash because missing dbus
<tadni`>mark_weaver: I mean, it's not really detracting from the channel -- sans it's annoying for some people. I haven't seen anyone ask anything technical or try to speak of something technical within the realm of this chat. That being said, I don't think we should split the chat up until/if we have a formal release of the distro, and/or we formally release a marketing team. We just really shouldn't talk about it until we know what RMS's
<tadni`>view. And even then, it's irrelevant until we hit a stable release ... I just again, get a bit heated, when the notion of marketing is viewed as "irrelevant".
<tadni`>Well, it's not really offtopic... it's not technical discussion/.
<tadni`>It's not really fair to call such conversation, off-topic, when it is directly in-regards to GNU Distro -- which for the time being, is directly tied to Guix.
<mark_weaver>Tsutsukakushi: the "nature of irc" varies from channel to channel. I expect #emacs to be flooded with off topic discussion.
<tadni`>It's fine, if we/people don't want policy dicussion and/or anything not regarding technical discussion in #guix, but let's not act as if we were talking about ponies and scittles.
<mark_weaver>In the years I've been following them, #guile and #guix have had a much higher signal to noise ratio, which enables us to consistently read the backlogs and answer people's questions, and have useful technical discussions.
<mark_weaver>doing that on #emacs would be hopeless. I'd rather not see this channel end up that way.
<Tsutsukakushi> Well maybe nature of instant messaging. It's easiee to get off the tracks
<tadni`>mark_weaver: Again, that's fine if there's a rather strong agreement with strong Guix contributors that they want such a thing preferably seperated -- but again, let's not compare use to being actually offtopic. #emacs is often actually offtopic, it is very rare, very rare in here.
<mark_weaver>tadni`: I will acknowledge that it's not entirely off topic, and I certainly welcome thoughts on related topics like how best to market ourselves. again, it's the sheer quantity of discussion about it, and the fact that it's been dominated by one person's thoughts, that I find problematic.
<tadni`>mark_weaver: Well, regarding being dominated by one's persons thoughts. I got ragged on for trying to get conversation from others about why they disliked GNUDistro. I was actively looking for other people's thoughts on the topic. This is the /only/ other conversation that I am aware of that has droned on to this point.
<mark_weaver>but if the majority of guix contributors disagree with me, then I'd just give up on trying to keep up with this channel.
<civodul>it's just that we need to leave space for technical discussions
<civodul>it's fine to have this sort of discussion once in a while tadni`, but we have to make sure not to overwhelm people
<civodul>it's primarily a channel for technical discussions
<Tsutsukakushi>It's not taking anything from the technical discussion if they aren't going on at the same time
<civodul>well, it may make it more difficult, dunno
<tadni`>civodul: I'm going to leave it up to your call; do you think we need a seperate channel for such a thing? The only real reason that this discussion lasted this long, is that I think Tsutsukakushi got a tad bit deffensive when I stated my concerns about Guixote as a name. And that led to me getting mad, that the whole notion that 'marketing really isn't important' is still so prevelant in FOSS.
<mark_weaver>it takes away in two respects: (1) if someone asks a technical question in the middle of such a discussion, those of us who might be able to answer question later are likely to never see the question, because it's buried in noise that we don't have the interest to wade though.
<mark_weaver>and (2) I think that many people are inhibited by starting discussion if there's already a high-bandwidth one taking place on channel.
<nkar>for example, I recently asked civodul: "seen my reply on the bug tracker?", which wasn't noticed
<tadni`>Ultimately, the reason that such a thing was discussed as much as it has been for two reasons. One, we didn't have a formal status from RMS -- so people were speculating and trying to come up with solutions. But too, we have and were polling for names in a list. This is not going to be the long-term state of communication in this chat, I think most people will be over it in a week or-so, unless RMS gives us the red-light.
<tadni`>This latest conversation though, I will take full fault for questioning.
<tadni`>It was not by tasked job to question/criticize suggestions people had.
<tadni`>I was tasked with collecting names, for the wiki.