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<mark_weaver>zacts: you asked the other day what other languages I know, and what other projects I've worked on.

<mark_weaver>I mostly work with C and Scheme these days, but in the past I've also worked with Common Lisp, Python, C++, Objective C, Haskell, PHP (ick!), and various assembly languages.

<zacts>wow, that's quite impressive

<zacts>well I hope to complete my readings through ch4 or ch5 of Scheme and the Art of Programming tonight..

<mark_weaver>for the last few years I've mostly worked on Guile, but lately I've been hacking on Guix some. I also worked closely with Phil Zimmermann at PGP, Inc. I led the project to produce scannable paper books with the source code of PGP, along with tools to make the scanning practical, such that PGP could be legally exported, even though PGP was considered a "munition" at the time and thus not exportable in other ways.

<zacts>oh, wow that's really neat

<brendyn>bravo

<mark_weaver>that was the last non-free software I worked on.

<zacts>so now do you work exclusively on free software?

<mark_weaver>zacts: cool! I haven't looked at that book, but anything with Daniel P. Friedman's name on it I'm inclined to think is quite good :)

<zacts>so far I really like the book

<zacts>the intro by guy steele jr. was neat too

<mark_weaver>zacts: yes, for the last 12 years or so, I've used only free software, and contribute only to free software.

<zacts>free software is the way to go

<mark_weaver>yes, I think it's of paramount importance that computers are controlled by the people who own them, and not by a few companies.

<zacts>yep

<mark_weaver>zacts: how did you discover Scheme?

<mark_weaver>oh, and perl. once upon a time I used perl extensively, although now I hardly touch it.

<mark_weaver>I'm sure I'm forgetting some.

<zacts>mark_weaver: hm.. red hat (first gnu/linux distro) 90's (I was a kid, then forgot about computers) -> Ubuntu/Debian 2009? (interested in computers again) -> emacs -> emacs lisp -> common lisp -> scheme -> vim -> perl -> emacs -> scheme.

<zacts>so through emacs

<mark_weaver>(I started programming heavily about 32 years ago, so it's easy to forget a lot :)

<mark_weaver>and, via emacs! yes, a lot of people get interested in the lisp family of languages that way, no doubt :)

<mark_weaver>s/and,/ah,/

<mark_weaver>cool! I've switched back and forth between emacs and vim a few times over the years myself :)

<mark_weaver>so you started out on free OSes? did one of your parents introduce you to Red Hat?

<zacts>when I was a kid, my dad went to college for IT, I used to attend classes with him. One of the students there gave me my first gnu/linux CD

<zacts>and he had a book on UNIX

<zacts>like how to do basic commands and stuff

<zacts>then I forgot about it for years until around 2009 or so

<zacts>I used windows and apple in between there

<zacts>when I discovered GNU after using ubuntu/debian (my second computing phase) I realized why free software was important

<zacts>I guess I always thought we should be able to understand our computers

<mark_weaver>ah, both! I started out on Apple (before the Mac), then the Mac, then NeXT (which later became MacOS X), and then switched to free unix exclusively around 1994, starting with the free BSD systems, and then to Debian.

<mark_weaver>somehow, I've managed to avoid ever using Windows.

<zacts>I also have experience with FreeBSD/OpenBSD

<zacts>mark_weaver: that's good, I used to be an avid gamer in the 2000 - 2007 years

<mark_weaver>what triggered your second phase of interest in computers?

<zacts>mark_weaver: I actually remember. I saw some video on the internet somewhere about "Ubuntu Linux" and I remembered the name "Linux" from when I was a kid. I put in the LiveCD and it worked so I installed it.

<mark_weaver>somehow, I managed to avoid spending too much time on games. every once in a while there was a game that captured by attention for a while, but for the most part I've always focused on programming from my very first usage of computers (literally from the first day).

<zacts>I re-taught myself the command line eventually, I can't remember the details of that.

<zacts>I don't play games anymore

<zacts>much

<zacts>I have debian on all of my computers

<zacts>I don't have any windows or OS X OS on anything

<mark_weaver>it helped that the old Apple II, which I started out on, came with BASIC built-in, and the games weren't all that compelling in those days.

<zacts>that's cool

<zacts>Actually my first computer ever was an APPLE

<zacts>with a black and white screen floppy drive

<zacts>and the helicopter game

<mark_weaver>nice! yeah, Debian has been my home for all my computers, both server and personal systems alike, for the last 15 years or so. occasionally I experiment with something else, but I always seem to come back to plain Debian.

<zacts>more recently I've been interested in Minix3 for eventually learning the basics of how OS work. I've got the minix3 book. But, I won't get into that until probably a couple of years from now or so.

<zacts>I've just skimmed parts of the book. I also got the book, because it's kind of like a classic.

<mark_weaver>yeah, Minix sounds interesting, though I've never studied it.

<zacts>and I got the design of the 4.4 BSD book for $8

<zacts>but, yeah. for now I'm way interested in emacs / guix / guile / scheme

<zacts>oh in fact I want to port chibi scheme to minix3

<mark_weaver>I suspect chibi is quite portable, so hopefully that shouldn't be too hard.

<zacts>yeah

<zacts>but, I also like music

<mark_weaver>in the kernel realm, I'm interested in the Hurd. I like the design and it has seen a resurgence in recent years.

<mark_weaver>do you play any instruments?

<zacts>yeah, I had the hurd installed on a laptop (before the debian installer) for about a week

<zacts>that's when I also tried LFS (linux from scratch) and successfully got that to work

<zacts>mark_weaver: yeah I play piano

<zacts>I like jazz quite a lot, along with Bach and Chopin ( I can't play chopin yet, but I'm working on bach ).

<mark_weaver>on my primary laptop (the one I'm on now), I built the entire system from scratch, based on the Cross Linux from Scratch book.

<mark_weaver>it's a YeeLoong 8101B, the same laptop that RMS uses.

<zacts>mark_weaver: I would be interested in eventually working on the hurd in a few years

<zacts>but after I read the minix book

<mark_weaver>nice! I've dabbled with the guitar on and off for most of my life, and vocals. just recently I've started learning the piano a bit.

<zacts>I like the book "Effortless Mastery" by kenney werner

<mark_weaver>I've also worked at MIT's all-volunteer radio station for the last 13 years.

<zacts>and "Free Play - The power of improvisation in life and the arts" Nachmanovitch

<zacts>oh sweet

<zacts>the above book could probably apply to programming also

<zacts>and it has a comment by keith jarret (jazz pianist) recommending the book

<mark_weaver>unlike most people there, I don't do a music show though. I help mostly in technical aspects: fixing things that break, including the transmitter; and also with the news and public affairs programs.

<zacts>oh sweet

<zacts>that gnu psychosynth looks kind of neat

<zacts>personally I don't agree with everything about the fsf, mainly in regards to their choice of recommended distros

<zacts>for me debian without the non-free repo is good

<zacts>but other than that I like gnu and the emacs / lispy / free culture

<mark_weaver>yeah, RMS's position on Debian is one of the few things I disagree with him on.

<mark_weaver>though admittedly, they were a bit lax about their own rules for a long time. only recently did they get the non-free firmware out of their default kernel.

<zacts>ah yeah

<jxself>And it may be back.

<jxself>Looking into that further is on my To Do list.

<mark_weaver>jxself: oh?

<jxself>But someone had mentioned that it appears they're not ripping it out of the source code anymore.

<jxself>Just disabled during compile, which seems like not the same thing to me.

<zacts>mark_weaver: although if guix matures, I will definitely have to use it! =)

<jxself>'cause it means someone would be able to point to something non-free in main.

<jxself>I'd like to run the linux-libre deblobbing scripts on the source code and see what it does.

<mark_weaver>yeah. that's a shame.

<mark_weaver>I would definitely like to switch to Guix entirely, when it matures a bit.

<mark_weaver>for several reasons

<zacts>anyway, gtg. a paper due in a few days and also I want to finish reading these ever so interesting ch from the SAOP book.

<zacts>but I hope to contribute to guix.

<zacts>ooh

<mark_weaver>okay, ttyl! nice chatting with you :)

<zacts>maybe I can add chibi scheme to guix

<mark_weaver>that would be good!

<phant0mas>I have almost ready a package with libmhash

<phant0mas>there is just a problem with building it on 64 bit machines

<Steap>phant0mas: which is ?

<phant0mas> http://sourceforge.net/p/mhash/patches/10/

<phant0mas>this one

<phant0mas>they know of the issue

<phant0mas>and they have a patch available

<Steap>oh

<Steap>if it has not been released yet, you could include the patch in the recipe

<phant0mas>I am reading the other packages so I can find how to do that :P

<phant0mas>I think I got it

<phant0mas>now I shall try it

<mark_weaver>The Loongson 3A has successfully built emacs using the new core-updates (with GCC 4.8.2).

<mark_weaver>going offline for a bit...

<civodul>viric: https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=16190 :-)

<civodul>davexunit: did you have a chance to try adding pkg-config to SDL?

<davexunit>civodul: not yet. I should have time once I get home from work.

<civodul>ok, np!

<civodul>welcome, saul

<saul>hello.

<saul>Is this were dmd discussion takes place? (in addition to guix)

<jxself>Seems as good of a place as any.

<saul>OK. I don't really have anything to discuss. I just wanted to follow things and learn a bit more.

<jxself>Nothing to say at all? ;)

<zacts>lo

<jxself>Medium.

<saul>jxself, just that I'm pleased with the resurrection of dmd, and with the revitalization of Guile over the past few years. It seems like the GNU project is maturing nicely.

<jxself>Indeed. After 30 years it's about time.

<civodul>:-)

<civodul>yeah dmd is being discussed "here"

<civodul>you're very welcome if you want to look at that piece :-)

IRC channel logs

2013-11-19.log