<taylanub>So is DMD our init system ? Sure neat that it's written in Guile but I wonder if it would be more sane to go with OpenRC or so to be somewhat similar to other distros (not that there are many who use OpenRC yet but it seems to be "the better systemd", for some values of "better").
<Arne`>wish: Add to the manual: “You can normally setuid root for nix-setuid-helper by executing as root: `chmod +s /usr/local/libexec/nix-setuid-helper`” (section 2.2 of the guide, before the last paragraph).
<Arne`>wish2: also 2.2 of the manual: /etc/nix-setuid.conf: Are the two words separated by a space or by a linebreak?
<Steap>We care more about adding packages, porting to other architectures...
<youlysses>taylanub: What does OpenRC offer that is substantially better, or some-factor of "unreachable" in Dmd?
*youlysses really needs to start packaging, but finds it so-hard to do -- when he has said software already setup on my host-box. That desperation to get his stuff working in an environment such-that his usual software stack is not-present -- Is what will really get him packaging some stuff.
<youlysses>Have to maintain that 3rd-person perspective -- even in my over verboseness. :^)
<taylanub>youlysses: Other distros are unlikely to adopt DMD over OpenRC, and duplicated effort (through NIH, in this case) is generally not nice, although I definitely also love the idea of a Guile-based init system, so no hard stance on my side ...
<youlysses>taylanub: Is not the point of the continued work done on DmD though, a result of building the best-possible upstream experience? I mean, it's fine and great if others want to use it in their distros, but I think the focus should be on providing the greatest guile-centric tools, for developers and the distro itself. :^P
<youlysses>taylanub: It's not like OpenRC is really providing what DmD is/does, right? I haven't looked into it, but I'm assuming it's not written and maintained in Scheme. NIH is mainly thrown out as a counter, when seemingly the same exact effort (or at least the changes are negligible between projects) is spent and "wasted" on one or the other of these said projects. The focus for GNU developers wanting primarily wanting their tools in Guile,
<youlysses>now, is the differentiating factor and too something I'd be able to respect.
<taylanub>youlysses: If "use Guile as much as possible" is an explicit goal of Guix, then fine, but I'd think that uniformity between Unix systems is a somewhat grander goal when it doesn't compromise the general distribution guidelines of GNU. It's obviously long lost in package management; I naively thought init systems could be saved, though when I think of it again now I realize there's already splintering everywehre so maybe it doesn't
<taylanub>OpenRC is already stable and in use at least on Gentoo though and Debian will hopefully switch to it too, so it's not worthless to check it out and see if perhaps a Guile interface to OpenRC wouldn't be more sane than a full new init system.
<taylanub>(Wow, I see DMD actually dates at least ten years back, being targeted at Guile 1.6 back then.)
<taylanub>Oh well, if it ends up being the init system of Guix, I'm sure I'll love it, so if people are motivated to work on it, no discouragements here; just saying though, OpenRC should be worth some consideration.
<youlysses>taylanub: Yeah -- I should have been more clear when I said "continued work". :^)
<youlysses>taylanub: We already have a fair amount of Standards in-place on/in the general GNU+Linux ecosystem, but I would call GNU+Linux-libre and planned, just generally the GNU ecosystem to not have to work exclusively, not even as-much as possible in that realm. Though I see them as similar, I too see them as very different entities.
<youlysses>That's the main detractor for me not packaging stuff -- having it on my host-machine. If I can live in a VW for awhile, I'll probably have the rest of my software stack packaged in a week or-two. :^D
*youlysses might retrograde back to Ratpoison from Stumpwm though. :^)
<youlysses>civodul: Yeah. I just can't rationalize my mind into packaging something I use everyday, in a different environment that's currently not a first-class citizen. I'd say it's a failing much more-so in me, than in the current way it's organized.
<youlysses>That being said, a tremendous amount of my current software stack is already packaged/working in guix. :^)
<youlysses>Just having GTK Emacs packaged covers probably 85% of my computing needs. I probably just need to get Conkeror or the like packaged and something that can read and export to .Doc formats and the like, so probably just Libreoffice.
<youlysses>civodul: I'm curious, do you live in ratpoison, or? I'm interested in the prospect of a Guile based tiling WM -- but at this point, I think it might just be more worthwhile to eventually writing a Wayland Compositor for (guil)Emacs. :^P
***ae is now known as Guest34899
<mark_weaver>youlysses: civodul uses ratpoison, yes. do you know about the recently started Guile-WM project?
<youlysses>mark_weaver: All I've seen was a mailing-list post about the possible beginnings of such-a thing, a general "I wrote bindings for some xorg-devel stuff, here's some sample code" -- I haven't seen anything past that point. Also I've heard someone trying to modernize scwm, some-time ago.
<mark_weaver>well, afaict, Guile-WM already works, although it's a bit bare bones.
<youlysses>mark_weaver: Besides the stacking windows, it looks pretty nice! :^)
<mark_weaver>well, yeah, it would have to be redone to make it do tiling, and I'd also want to support better keyboard navigation.
<mark_weaver>but since it already works as a WM, has full XCB bindings, and is written in Guile, it should be relatively easy to change it to a tiling WM.
<mark_weaver>I expect I'll probably want to use it at some point, anyway.
<youlysses>mark_weaver: It lists a tiling-algorithm, so that seems hopeful. Might be a nice transitional piece of software, until/if someone writes that mystic wayland compositor for Guile Emacs... :^)
<ArneBab_>I just wrote an article about installing GNU Guix and my initial impressions:
<ArneBab_>that sounds nice - then additional overlays should not be too hard to add.
<Steap>the easiest thing to do would be to add them in gnu/packages/
<Steap>but you could probably use them from elsewhere
<Steap>I'm no Schemer, though, so I'm not sure how
<mark_weaver>there's a recent discussion on guix-devel about overlays. basically, it's not hard to do the equivalent of overlays right now, but it could probably use some polishing. it's just a matter of finding the right way to do it.