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2025-11-10.log
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<daviid>bootchk: so, just to make sure, the unchanged patch I submited does work as expected, right? <daviid>bootchk: you wrote '... and corrected ...' but i don't see, aside the display and comments, any change to the original patch, just want to make sure ... <bootchk>daviid: No, it seems to crash. I will soon upload the test case as a MR to the Gimp repo, where you can at least look at it. Coming up with a small test case is hard. <bootchk>daviid: there are substantive changes re extra dereferencing. My changes could be wrong, I struggle to understand my own explanation. <daviid>bootchk: hum, i'll write a test case that doesn't not depend on Gimp - will ping you when done ... sorry for the utested patch <bootchk>daviid: when I thought about writing a test case, would I need to write a small GI annotated library, or is there some other way? Are there test cases for G-Golf? I see how hard laborious it might be. <daviid>bootchk: oh, those changes you propose are definitely wrong ... <daviid>bootchk: no, I just need an array of GObject instance, and g-golf pass the marshalling gi test suite (but I did skip a few tests, this is oneof them ...) <daviid>bootchk: g-golf has its own test-suite, just run 'make check' <sam113101>something I don't like is how I have to (import) stuff like sfri-1 sfri-41 etc., I don't remember the name nor the number or what they even contain <sham1>There is an SRFI for that :P <sham1>These don't quite remove the need to remember the numbers (you'd have to decide which SRFI is "blessed" with a memorable name) but the lists in both of the SRFI specs are probably helpful <sham1>Hopefully as more libraries are taken into R7RS-large, we can come up with more memorable names *knock on wood* <rlb>sham1: another quick way to get a list is "info guile srfi". <dsmith>srfi-1 is lists stuff, srfi-13 is strings stuff. What more do you need? ;^} <old>dsmith: srfi-26 is neat <mwette>I guess I use a lot of srfis. And I only remember 1/2 the numbers. <old>but I hate having to add an import for using cut .. <old>module loading time is still a bottleneck I found so if I can avoid to import srfi-1 to get `first` .. I'll just use car <ArneBab>dsmith: srfi-42 is good for people coming from Python <dsmith>Did no one notice the ;^} ? I *am* jesting <sham1>And srfi-125 is for hash tables, 146 for more general mapping structure stuff, like hash tries and junk, 128 comparators etc. But potential jesting aside, one can of course learn these numbers with enough usage <ArneBab>dsmith: but I found that learning SRFIs and libraries makes a big difference in Guile. I tried to include in Naming & Logic the best practices that had the biggest effect on my own programming. And I think it would be great to have more small tutorials that show such impactful tools so people can learn best practices incrementally. <ArneBab>Aside: I was pretty surprised to see that the stackoverflow developer survey showed that 4% of learners learn lisp or scheme. That’s actually pretty many people. <sham1>I wonder what proportion of that is actually Clojure, assuming that's not its own entry, which it probably is <dsmith>Hmm. I wonder how many of those "lisps" are emacs lisp? <mwette>dsmith: that is what I was thinking <dsmith>Yep. Was my first lispy thing too <ArneBab>Same for me. And it worries me a bit that in that questionaire for Dev-IDEs vim and neovim appear at a prominent 24% and 14% but Emacs is only at 0.1% in the write-ins. <old>maybe emacs users don't surf SO often <ArneBab>Or maybe only few people add a write-in if it’s not part of the default options <ArneBab>What worries me is that using Emacs improved my work at the computer more than any other technology. <old>ArneBab: why is that worrying? <old>you fear that Emacs is peak computing that humanity can achieve? <ArneBab>Not necessarily for me, but for programming as an activity in society. <old>could you expand on that <ArneBab>I fear that the benefit it can bring will only be realized for very few people and that this brings a cost as people waste their time on shortlived worse tools and replace them regularly, losing part of their established skills every time (I see that at work). <old>well I fear we are already there <ArneBab>yes, and we’re not moving out of that. <old>I am young (I turn 30 in feb) and IIRC, I could count on my hands the number of people that used Emacs at the university <old>yet, I learn Emacs in one my CS course <old>the teacher was Mark Feelay, creator of Scheme Gambit <old>he had the spirit I guess <ArneBab>I’m 43 and I chose Emacs 20 years ago. It still works well for me. But I have a hard time teaching it to my kids … <mwette>I still run into a number of people using emacs. It pleases me that it's still after all these decades. <old>I think the problem is broader than just Emacs. I have choosen Linux and Freesofware for my computing (I guess my life?) for the most part. and I converted my wife and my mom to some extent also <old>But we always ran into trouble because the world is hostile toward anything outside the big corpo world <rlb>If you want to look at things at least a little more optimistically -- it seems plausible that there are now far more emacs users than there have ever been (at least relative to say 10/20/30 years ago). Also far more Linux users, etc. <old>Need a template for writting your master thesis? Here's a .docx not compatible with LibreOffice .. <rlb>(Even if most of the world just relies on their phone.) <ArneBab>we’re now roughly factor 6 above 2010. <old>and in general, I feel that the art of crafting a program out of a beautiful and elegant solution is now things of the past <old>Even more now because of AI craps <old>Imagine the amount of wasted resources we would save if Windows did not exist and Linux was used instead <old>You know, that 2 years old laptop that won't be compatible with Windows 11 <mwette>the uni's use a lot of Linux; that will propagate out to industry <ArneBab>At work 60-70% of our core (Java) developers use Linux. The rest use macOS … <dsmith>Here is an alternate viewpoint: Do NOT tell people about emacs. Keep it private as a secret superpower to leapfrog ahead of your competitors in the job marketspace. <dsmith>All the kids I worked with at VTI were vimers. <dsmith>Or maybe notepad++ (vscode was not around then) <dsmith>sam113101, What is the best tool? <dsmith>What I'm suggesting is there is no "best". Right tool for the job and all that. <identity>sam113101: common lisp is certainly a big hammer, but you certainly do not want to use it for a job of a mallet, and maybe you do not like big hammers anyway <identity>interpolate the analogy to other lisps as you see fit <dsmith>ACTION imagines pulling a phillips wood screw out with a claw hammer... <mwette>ACTION thinks of efficiency of power saw vs hand saw VS risk to lose fingers