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2024-09-24.log
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<dthompson>ArneBab: ah okay, you're running a repl server. are you connecting to it from the same process? <dthompson>I don't see why running the standard guile repl and standard readline support wouldn't work if you ran it in its own thread <amano>How can I get the path to a resource file like an image in a guile module? <amano>Some guile libraries may ship static resource files like images. <ArneBab>sneek: later tell dthompson I connect from another process, I think. <dpk>is there a way to tell Guile’s writer to use hexadecimal notation in bytevectors? <dpk>i.e. #vu8(#xE0) instead of #vu8(224) <sneek>Welcome back dthompson, you have 1 message! <sneek>dthompson, ArneBab says: I connect from another process, I think. <amano>Is guile maintained by people who are obsessed with documentation and clear communication of their stances? <Arsen>that seems loaded - what do you mean <amano>I'm becoming sick of languages maintained by people who don't care much about documentation and don't really care to clearly communicate whether they refuse a new funciton or just don't want to implement it themselves but would accept it from other people. <amano>They are messy maintainers that don't really care about tying loose ends. <amano>I wouldn't be able to sleep if I can't clearly articulate my stance about a new feature. <amano>Arsen: I hate messy maintainers who really don't care to tie loose ends. <amano>Is guile maintained by people who care about neatness? <morenonatural>Arsen, I don't think looking down on maintaners improves the situation for anyone <amano>morenonatural: The first step to improvements is recognizing that there is a problem. <amano>If you refuse to perceive the problem, you can't solve it. <Arsen>morenonatural: I wasn't doing that I think <Arsen>amano: hmm, maybe - imo try it and see. <amano>morenonatural: I'm aware that the solution involves worldwide education which I can't do alone. <amano>Educating people well so that they are not assholes and they are not messy. <morenonatural>guile , like other libre software, lacks resources to keep up with need work <morenonatural>sometimes, that lack may manifest in a "I didn't know that was an issue" kind of way <amano>morenonatural: Neat people also recognize they can't keep up, but they at least don't leave loose ends when they implement a new feature. <morenonatural>what you're seeing is not ill-intended maintainers, but rather lack of resources <amano>I would never implement a new feature without documentation. <amano>If I can't do it without documentation, I wouldn't do it. <amano>Undocumented features are technical debt. <amano>That's the difference between neat people and messy people. <amano>morenonatural: My sister's extremely trashy room is a reflection of her priorities. <amano>My neat room is a reflection of my priorities. <amano>My priorities are healthier. <amano>I don't make mess in the first place even if I don't have time. <amano>I make mess only when I'm genuinely forced to. <morenonatural>jumping into conclusions from a single case doesn't sound productive <dthompson>it would be more productive to talk about specific actionable tasks that could improve guile rather than this abstract messy/neat dichotomy that feels very reductive <amano>Does guile have many undocumented features? <amano>half-finished undocumented features. <dthompson>yes, there are things that are undocumented and under-documented. <amano>I guess that rules out the possibility that maintainers obsess with clean documentation. <amano>Do maintainers clearly communicate whether they refuse a new feature or don't want to implement it themselves but will accept it if other people implement it? <amano>Messy documentation is forgivable, but unclear communication is annoying. <amano>People who don't care to even communicate their stance create confusion. <amano>In that case, I have to force them to choose their stance. <dpk>Guile’s documentation is generally pretty damned good <amano>What is guile's package management system? As far as I know, it's hall and gnu autotools? <dthompson>there's no built-in package manager. autotools is a build system, which is a different thing. <amano>I mean guile's build system. <dthompson>autotools is typically what's used, but guile doesn't prescribe any particular build system. <amano>I'd rather kill myself than write autotools files. <amano>How fast does a guile script load? <amano>dthompson: Can you atually measure how long it takes to print "3" in a guile script? <Arsen>ISTR their name.. that's usually not a good thin <dthompson>love when people join a channel and immediately start making value judgements about maintainers <Arsen>ah, yeah, I have them in my psql backlog <weary-traveler>had to look at the logs to figure out who you were talking about <Arsen>they were calling me and others in #gentoo-chat a 'moral relativist' and were ranting about ZFS support in guix <Arsen>> Gentoo is somewhat quirky and dirty, but it is at least flexible. <dthompson>they seem like they will never be satisfied with anything <Arsen>> gnu decreases human freedom. <Arsen>they repeated this.. many times it'd seem <Arsen>anyway.. they'll be back - they have asked the same questions before it'd seem, more than once even <weary-traveler>regardless of whether or not the discussion is being carried out in good faith, it's never been constructive in my experience <haugh>"Morally relativistic" is an excellent description of Gentoo <morenonatural>can I do a file upload in a form with `http-request` like with curl's --form ? <weary-traveler>what's the way to ensure that a given procedure has the procedure-source property set appropriately?