IRC channel logs

<wingo>moin

<nalaginrut>amz3: I'm wring the new blog engine with guile-git, now I'm thinking how to build dependencies when we don't have a workable guildhall

<nalaginrut>amz3: maybe I should integrate them all, guile-git and scheme-bytestructures

<nalaginrut>before Artanis has its own pkg manager

<nalaginrut>nalaginrut: or maybe don't do so...

<nalaginrut>amz3: cool, I like it

<wingo>nalaginrut: guix!

<nalaginrut>wingo: I can't make it work myself ;-(

<wingo>why not?

<nalaginrut>wingo: I mean I haven't made it work for me

<wingo>honestly i think guix is going to be a great guildhall

<wingo>& it already has these things packaged

<wingo>see https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-devel/2017-04/msg00649.html for some ideas of where we can go

<nalaginrut>wingo: I'll try, I'd like to write a smaller pkg manager based on guix to provide something Artanis specific things

<wingo>that could make sense

<wingo>would be interesting to see what that looks like :)

<wingo>you might be interested by the potluck patches, they define a separate simpler package format that can be lowered down to "normal" Guix packages

<nalaginrut>wingo: oh good

<wingo>i will try to apply them soonish

<nalaginrut>I hope it's easily to manage installation path, it's important for the deploy and localized pkg management, which is reason why I need a new pkg manager for artanis

<civodul>nalaginrut: look, just focus on providing a web framework, and we'll take care of the packaging part ;-)

<nalaginrut>civodul: I hope so, I need to provide a plugin of guix, parse the prerequisites file and call guix to install them, and the installation paths has to be modified to a specific one in the folder

<nalaginrut>I can't let them install in the default system path

<nalaginrut>civodul: btw, I always want to deploy our product system with guix, but the biggest problem is the network speed of its repo

<nalaginrut>it's very slow in China (behind a national firewall), we were going to try to build a mirror, but it's too big, the hard dist is not an issue, but the speed

<nalaginrut>guix is very good for our need, we've met many dependencies hell issues

<wingo>the speed of guix's git repo?

<wingo>obviously you can set up your own hydra

<wingo>if you want to build locally

<wingo>in theory there is a guixsd os config that should "just work" if you install it on some local server

<wingo>dunno

<nalaginrut>I'm talking about a product deployment, not a "just work" system ;-)

<nalaginrut>and yes, I can boot the guixsd system

<wingo>ok i feel like we must be talking past each other, dunno, i meant to host a deployment server locally

<wingo>but good luck!

<nalaginrut>yes, it's possible, not a small work though ;-)

<nalaginrut>fortunately, I make it work, seems there's great fix since last time I tried, thanks civodul

<nalaginrut>civodul: when I run `guix refresh`, it's long time halting, should I wait? or is there a progress bar?

<nikita1>wingo: It will be strage to distribute scheme-only (almost) packages through such a full-featured platform as guix

<nikita1>wingo: f.e. on bsd systems one have to: (1) port guix, (2) port some essential packages to guix (like bsd ports of common packages, then with given guix system (3) install guile, (4) install artanis dependencies (5) install artanis (6) artanis modules... etc.

<nikita1>which may be quite costly while only installation of guile and scheme-only modules are needed (except semi-low-level guile-dbi, which in turn can be turned into scheme-only+ffi package).

<OrangeShark>nikita1: I agree that it is going to be an issue on other platforms.

<nikita1>what's wrong with guildhall?

<davexunit>language specific package managers are problematic and most guile developers already use guix.

<nikita1>davexunit: hm.. pip works well on linux and bsd.

<davexunit>many of us hold the opinion that tools like pip are not very good

<davexunit>basically, we'd write a whole new package manager that would have subset of the features of guix, and all of us would just wish we were using guix.

<davexunit>and in fact many of us would just use guix and not use the other thing

<davexunit>which is already the case

<davexunit>no one uses the guildhall because guix is better.

<civodul>well i think it's also a network effect (or lack thereof)

<davexunit>yeah

<davexunit>the force is strong with guix. lots of guilers are attracted to it, which makes it a good thing to keep using.

<nikita1>I admit that it is so... but what to do if someone just want to share/distribute just small .scm module? make a full guix package??

<spk121>of course, RPM had solved basic package management long ago. You have to go where the enegy is, which is Guix for the moment. But if you're going to reinvent the wheel, don't. RPM is good enough.

<davexunit>that's a controversial statement.

<davexunit>us Guix folks believe that RPM is not nearly good enough.

<davexunit>and then say we just used RPM, what about the deb folks?

<davexunit>nikita1: I'm not up-to-date on the latest info but potluck packages are simpler than guix packages

<nikita1>potluck requires guix :(

<davexunit>sure

<davexunit>but it gets to make assumptions that make writing the potluck package easier

<davexunit>a single file guile project could be more easily dealt with

<davexunit>in guix itself we made it easy to write emacs packages whose source is just a single .el file

<davexunit>for example

<nikita1>yes, but it doesn't make the path from BSD system -> BSD with guile + modules + applications shorter.

<davexunit>no, but BSD isn't really a target at the moment.

<spk121>davexunit: I say rpm and you say what about deb. Someone says BSD and you say not a priority.

<nikita1>:)

<spk121>always some tradeoffs

<davexunit>spk121: you're comparing apples and oranges.

<davexunit>anyway, I don't want to argue with anyone. just explaining why things are the way they are.

<spk121>your comparing perceived limitations to actual limitation

<nikita1>ok the...

<davexunit>most guilers develop on GNU/Linux and like to use Guix.

<davexunit>therefore the people power is available to make that environment work nicely.

<davexunit>would be great to make something for BSD, but that's not where energy has been directed thus far.

<davexunit>spk121: I am not interested in arguing with you.

<nikita1>who can help, then, which version of libgpg-error is required to build guix?

<nikita1>I have an error like this: checking whether -L/usr/local/lib -lgcrypt -lgpg-error/libgcrypt can be dynamically loaded... no ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????

<nikita1>configure: error: GNU libgcrypt does not appear to be usable; see `--with-libgcrypt-prefix' and `README'.

<nikita1>I'm sorry, not libgpg-error, but which version of libgcrypt is needed?

<paroneayea> https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/WebAssembly/Understanding_the_text_format

<paroneayea>heya davidl

<paroneayea>oops

<paroneayea>I meant to ping daviid but they aren't here!

<civodul>too many dave's here :-)

<paroneayea>I don't have any problem with >= the current number of daves :)

<civodul>:-)

<davidl>hey you :-) I think my LUKS, GPT and BTRFS build will finally work!

IRC channel logs

2017-05-15.log