***michel_mno_afk is now known as michel_mno
***michel_mno is now known as michel_mno_afk
***michel_mno_afk is now known as michel_mno
<amz3>I have silly question :) <amz3>is it possible to use git artanis with a custom database? <nalaginrut>amz3: well, you revealed one of important secrete feature of Artanis <nalaginrut>amz3: of course it will be, since I want to port my blog to Artanis from Tekuti, I do need git plugin <nalaginrut>anyway, I'll do it with plugin, not add it into Artanis core <amz3>the best thing I have to do right now is to build some kind of multi-thread facility for my database... but... I'm too lazy <amz3>I will experiment with the API instead <amz3>atomspace of opencog looks so intersting, it is some kind of graph (an hypergraph) where the algorithm to modify the database can be expressed <amz3>it's a programming+programmable database <adhoc>amz3: what kind of data base work are you doing ? <amz3>I'm writing a small database <amz3>adhoc: Did I answer your question? <amz3>this sounds like I am doing a database to do a database. but it's not. My idea is to improve productivity while keeping strong guarantees in terms of durability/consistency <amz3>I would not be doing that if datomic was opensource <amz3>s/opensource/free software/ <davexunit>bummer that one of the biggest uses of clojure is a proprietary database ;? <amz3>it is the biggest use of clojure? <amz3>I look up wikipedia for rich hickey <davexunit>so maybe it's not the biggest, but the creator of Clojure developed it. <amz3>Hickey seems to be nobody outside clojure. His wikipedia page redirect to Clojure page <amz3>one of the wonderful thing of datomic, is that he succeed at leveraging existing product (other databases) to build its own database <amz3>also a thing I like, the way datomic works seems to foster Single Source of Truth <amz3>cassandra I think and postgresql maybe memcached is in the mix <amz3>AGPL doesn't work. It over the network <amz3>I read that if an application access another AGPL appllication over the network it doesn't have to be AGPL <amz3>I can implement an improved version of atomspace using datomic schema <amz3>I still need to get a better understanding of atomspace, I'll probably try that at some point <amz3>datomic people have a program to load git repo into datomic to do software analysis <amz3>software analysis is I think something of the future <amz3>I mean, I never heard of it during Uni except proofs ***michel_mno is now known as michel_mno_afk
<paroneayea>davexunit: also! I had a funny thought last night. <paroneayea>davexunit: so Haunt, presumably it crawls a directory tree for content right? but it's configurable through scheme. <paroneayea>davexunit: which means, could the function for crawling content be changed? <paroneayea>davexunit: and hilariously, could we then allow a procedure to pull stuff out of a database with squee? ;) <paroneayea>davexunit: because you could very hilariously turn haunt into a CMS <davexunit>although haunt doesn't serve pages on-demand <paroneayea>davexunit: right... though I worked at a company which had a CMS that did just that <amz3>actually it's my plan ^^ <paroneayea>it published everything to "static content", but in reality static content *could* contain SSIs and php if needed for something semi-dynamic <davexunit>I'd like haunt to eventually have the ability to only rebuild parts of a site <paroneayea>but for the most part, it was jsut static though. <davexunit>yeah, without going into full make territory. <amz3>I was going to say that I've put in git guile-wiredtiger <amz3>if you already had a look at the ML file, look at the commits to know what's new <davexunit>I don't really understand what it does yet, though :) <amz3>basically packing/unpacking is done by guile-wiredtiger via introspection <davexunit>from the readme, I can see that you can "build your own database" <amz3>(there is also examples: graphdb, tuple db and fixed the haystack to order results <amz3>*and* I doesn't require to have all the database in memory <amz3>it's supposed to be slower for the usecase of redis <davexunit>I'm interested, but I just don't get what niche this fits into <davexunit>amz3: purely academic, or are there practical applications? <amz3>like datomic, except I don't need to fire postgresql, memecached or cassandra <davexunit>okay, I guess I need to understand the reason for using datomic. <amz3>for instance, well mysql and mongodb have bad reputation, but wiredtiger is the backend of mongodb and there is an engine for mysql too <davexunit>I'm basically waiting for someone that actually understands parsers to come by and say "what are you doing, you fool?" <amz3>the use case in the industry is to build super-hight speed database for expert system <amz3>for instance, LDAP use a similar database <amz3>wiredtiger is similar to LevelDB but with more features <amz3>davexunit: it *was* aweful. I'm waiting for the feedback of new versions <amz3>the guys that built wiredtiger, built Oracle Berkeley DB which is Oracle (and made AGPL by Oracle) <amz3>it's easier and faster that bsddb ^ <amz3>well on the paper it's very good. <amz3>The problem is that people using it, don't say it. Oil or Finance don't share much... <amz3>the problem is that it doesn't work on 32bit <amz3>you know that you can time travel in datomic ? <amz3>yeah so cool. I will use that feature to implement a wiki like for my blog <amz3>actually wiki like "rows" is native in datomic <amz3>you are right it's a niche software; hopefully I will try document/build enough patterns so that it's easy to create fine tuned database for application <amz3>yeah, in the end it's a performance tweak <amz3>(plus the expressivness of scheme ;) <amz3>this is make me think that a @orcale.com mail got lost in my inbox once x) <davexunit>amz3: interested to see what you come up with <paroneayea>but they're doing the kind of unfortunate thing of giving copyleft a bad name <paroneayea>or at least, I'd assume if they're doing the same thing that's hapened with mysql <paroneayea>but hey, mike linksvayer says even the "scare tactic" copyleft enforcement might help, "think of it as a 'sin tax'" <paroneayea>but I think that people might approach copyleft enforcement differently depending on the motives of the enforcer <amz3>people from sleepycat that created BerkeleyDB left for wiredtiger ^^ <amz3>bad thing but also good thing. More software will rise because of this copyleft I hope <amz3>davexunit: I hope other people find it useful, even if I pursue my own lullaby <daviid>mark_weaver: you can close #18570, it seems it's still active <davexunit>amz3: I'd like to better understand when it would be useful. "a-ha! wiredtiger will be perfect for this!" <amz3>it's never obvious, it's really for expert/complex systems. But IMHO it's useful for quick dirty stuff when you don't master sql <amz3>and obviously for everything SQL doesn't handle well like recursive queries or flexible schemas <amz3>you won't see the interest, if you don't have performance issues <davexunit>but I like the idea of having a low level database building tool <amz3>ah also, it's embedded like sqlite <amz3>you have to build networking and query language yourself <gnusosa>Hi, I have another dumb question, anybody know any way to get alphabetical order correctly in Guile? <gnusosa>If I try: (sort '("opt" "opst") string<?) <gnusosa>umm according to programming pearls, it should be opt opst ... <gnusosa>I do understand, that should be the correct sorting given the position of ops before t <davexunit>using string<? as the predicate sorts lexicographically <amz3>davexunit: also it's sorted, it an important feature to be able to build indexes. AFAIK leveldb is not sorted <amz3>gnusosa: I think you are right the short comes before the big <amz3>python gives the same result as guile <davexunit>gnusosa: you'd have to write your own operator <davexunit>the sort is correct given the predicate you are using. <daviid>gnusosa: you wish to have a specific collating sequence engine here, hence you have to write yours.... <amz3>gnusosa: thx for asking I discovered someting :) <gnusosa>I'm going through programming pearls with Guile <amz3>so "abc" is before "abca" <amz3>(and whatever string that has the same prefix) <amz3>gnusosa: looks like there is seom bugs <daviid>paroneayea: which postgres version did you start your binding with? just curious at this point <mark_weaver>daviid: you can close the bug yourself by sending email to 18570-done@debbugs.gnu.org. ideally, the body of the message should mention that you're closing the bug and why. <daviid>mark_weaver: oh really? did know i just sent an email to savannah [relted to guile-clutter] asking for a tutorial about how to handle debbugs ... <daviid>how to raise/lower priority ... these things <daviid>i thought we needed admin priviledges fir these things... will close later today [have to go afk for a bit] <daviid>in a .pc file, [for example my 'grip' project] should the module_directory be [something like] 'module_directory=@GUILE_GLOBAL_SITE@' or 'module_directory=@GUILE_GLOBAL_SITE@/grip ? what is usually recommended here? <daviid>opted for the later, let's see, no really important